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E85 Fuel to Caltex

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beagle_senior
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:41 AM (permalink)
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For those of you that are interested, Goodyear make an Ethonal specific hose that is available here in Australia.
 
And I have upgraded to the new Aeromotive unit a few months ago, so ok with that...

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beagle_senior  - 1990 SW20 Turbo Satin Black - 306kw with 629 NM torque
MCT_MR2
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:52 PM (permalink)
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There is also synflex, which isn't rubber hose, or cheaper ($17 p/m) and that hose will handle any alcohol fuel. Have not had any dramas with walbro pumps and e85 yet.
The only thing we have found is the older the fuel system of the car, in regards to lines and pumps etc, the more often something fails.
If you want to do a test, go down to somewhere like pirtek or ryco and get a few short sample pieces of fuel lines, and put them in a jar with some e85. I have a jar sitting on my workbench that has been there for 3 months now, with some v8 supercar control e85, and one non descript rubber line has hardened a touch, some goodyear fuel hose (can't remember which type, it has a red outer) has gone quite soft, the has been no change to the goss fuel hose and i can't remember the others off the top of my head.
 
Just don't forget there is a seasonal varience in ethanol fuels, and the e85 only has to be up to 70% ethanol. If your going to start mixing your own, and wantto be fairly sure on percentages, get an ethanol test kit (there fairly cheap off ebay) which is just a test tube you add water and some fuel to, and it works off specific gravity to give you a percentage.
 
 

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MRTurbo
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, June 27, 2011 7:01 AM (permalink)
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MYTHBUSTERS ON ETHANOL
1. E85 ethanol is corrosive
Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Petrol is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.
On a side note, petrol contains water too. Ever hear of dry petrol?
2. If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away.
If your car was built in the old days, it had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. In the USA, the government mandated that all petrol contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions, Australia has brought in similar legislation too. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Petrol tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.
3. If I put E85 ethanol in my non-Flex Fuel vehicle, it will ruin it.
One tank won’t hurt. Some dealers are spreading rumours and charging $300-$3000 for one tank of accidental E85 use. This use may cause misfiring and a rough ride. Your 'check engine' light will come on. If you should accidentally (or on purpose) put E85 in your vehicle, drain the tank, put in regular petrol and all will be well. If you use E85 without a conversion kit or in a non-Flex Fuel capable vehicle for an extended period, you can damage your engine.
4. Ethanol will burn up my engine.
Ethanol has a lower ignition point than petrol. Ethanol has about 115 octane and E85 has 105 octane. It burns cooler and will extend engine life by preventing the burning of engine valves and preventing the build-up of olefins in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.
5. Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more.
Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.
The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.
Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and petrol. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles, that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets, may have issues from long term exposure to water.
Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years, and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.
6. E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines.
This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced, so the concerns of a car (20 years old or newer) having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% unleaded will help keep lines lubricated.
7. E85 will destroy my fuel pump.
E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the petrol tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.
8. It takes more than a gallon of energy to make a gallon of E85.
This was true at one point in time. Today’s advanced technology and distilling processes actually create considerably more units of ethanol than units of energy used. The processes continue to advance and the ratio will continue to increase.
9. E85 Ethanol is worse for the environment than petrol.
There have been some people who have published reports stating that E85 is worse than petrol for the environment. They have yet to show any scientific proof or case studies that support their claims. Because E85 is cleaner than conventional unleaded petrol, it emits less hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and hydrogen. E85 reduces carbon monoxide emissions by as much as 70 percent — and less carbon monoxide helps reduce ozone formation and greenhouse gas levels. According to EPA, petrol is the largest source of manmade carcinogens. Ethanol reduces overall toxic pollution by diluting harmful compounds found in petrol such as benzene and other aromatics.
10. Using E85 ethanol will get 50% less mileage per tank.
There are some stories floating around about 50% reduction in mileage or twice as much ethanol is needed. Some of the automakers who introduced Flex vehicles did a terrible job with the fuel management systems, so that mileage did decrease as much as 50%. After some trial and error however, the automakers have significantly improved their Flex systems and mileage conservation is within reasonable losses such as 5-15%. Conversion Kits like the Flex Fuel Kit have been around for over 20 years. Realistic losses range from 5-15% as well.
11. Vehicles need more E85 ethanol, so there is less power.
It is true that a vehicle does require more E85 than regular unleaded since the amount of energy per unit of ethanol is less than that of petrol. Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler -- increasing power. It also burns slower: so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump petrol. Also E85 is 105 octane. Petrol comes in 85, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter.
12. Won't E85 production deplete human and animal food supplies?
No, actually the production of ethanol from corn uses only the starch of the corn kernel: all of the valuable protein, minerals and nutrients remain. One bushel of corn produces about 2.7 gallons of ethanol AND 11.4 pounds of gluten feed (20% protein) AND 3 pounds of gluten meal (60% protein) AND 1.6 pounds of corn oil.

In Australia, the majority of ethanol is produced from suger cane waste: not from crops suitable for human consumption.
 
http://www.flexfuelkit.com.au/articles/3/1/E85-Ethanol-Myths/Page1.html
 

1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
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beagle_senior
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, June 27, 2011 9:07 AM (permalink)
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/\ - great news, thanks for doing the research on this for us...
 
I have gone to MTQ at Regency Park and they are making me new fuel lines anyway...

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nuk1ear
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Sunday, July 17, 2011 10:50 AM (permalink)
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so i guess the biggest issue will be the consistancy of the ethanol percentage right? they say "up to 85%".
zmit
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Sunday, July 17, 2011 3:50 PM (permalink)
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I don't think that will be an issue at all.
If there is less ethanol in the mix, it will simply be a greater quantity of petrol. So if you account for 85% ethanol, having less than that won't hurt... it will just mean a *slightly* lower octane.

I'm looking forward to having some cash again so i can get my ethanol fix... It's addictive! (for the car i mean... not for me) 

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nuk1ear
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Sunday, July 17, 2011 10:47 PM (permalink)
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um but a slightly lower octane, wont that mean the fuel is less knock preventative? So have your tune with x timing might knock at y rpm/load when it usually wouldnt? etc.
MuMan
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 0:28 PM (permalink)
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I dont think it would be a major issue. If your running a minimum, say 10% on a stock ECU to get to around the 100RON level, and the bio-flex drops off a few percent, it would simply mean the ECU would be back to trimming the JDM ign timing. Anything greater than 10% would put you over 100RON by a reasonable margin, so there shouldn't be enough variation to cause any issue.
With a tuned ECU, I doubt you'd want to run as low as 10% given the performance gains available..there's a real tendency to get greedy with this stuff where thats concerned. With higher mixes  AFR's become the key indicator for safe tuning, as knock just doesn't take place on a healthy engine. Personally, I'd stay away from GM sensors for that reason, and stick with the OEM, and tune conservatively.
If your concerned about the possible effects of the E on the stock pump or hoses etc., I'd look at 15-20% in that case, which from all reports seems to have low impact.
post edited by MuMan - Monday, July 18, 2011 0:54 PM

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jdmr288
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 9:37 AM (permalink)
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James - Probably was posted elsewhere, but do you know where to get this stuff around our area? I asked the local BP that I go to near Dennis Rd adjacent to the M1, they haven't heard anything about it and don't know where they sell it. I'd imagine this particular servo would have a huge following if it started selling the stuff given the amount of imports around Springwood area.

zmit
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 9:45 AM (permalink)
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Do you mean E85?
It's also called E-flex and is a joint project between Caltex and Holden.
It seems to be popping up at a few other places lately.

E-flex is in the following areas. (link to caltex locator is below)
ACT
Nicholls
Tuggeranong

QLD
Mackenzie
Churchill
Marsden
Brookwater
Alexandra Hills
Worongary 

NSW
Casula
Drummoyne
Gosford West
Hamilton
Heathcote
Manly
Moorebank
Richmond
Tempe

SA
Salisbury Park
St Marys
Woodcroft

VIC
Footscray
Hillside
Kilsyth
Lilydale
Mornington
Mount Waverley
Preston
Springvale
Tullamarine
Yarra Glen 

http://www.caltex.com.au/...ndAServiceStation.aspx 
 
post edited by zmit - Monday, July 18, 2011 9:56 AM

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MuMan
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 10:29 AM (permalink)
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The one I've been going to is Caltex Marsden. Its on the cnr of Browns Plains road and 3rd Avenue. The pump is at the back, on its own and I think it was something like $1.14 a Lt.
I'm not sure too many have caught on yet, seemed pretty quiet when I've been there. At Springwood, you'd be knee deep in ricers
post edited by MuMan - Monday, July 18, 2011 10:33 AM

"Have you ever noticed when things get set in motion, the heavy end wants to go first."


zmit
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 10:34 AM (permalink)
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It's been publicised for the new Commodores anyway. I would imagine the whooping great warning lever over the E85 pump is enough to scare some people off.
I have heard of a few people filling up purely with E85 "because it's cheaper" and then needing to be towed away. This was from the caltex operator at Woodcroft. 

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jdmr288
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 12:25 AM (permalink)
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LOL. I might pop around to that one at marsden. I've always hated going to Caltex for fuel...it's like Aldi to me...and I vowed to never step foot in an Aldi store. Don't ask my why I just made up my mind that way even though I don't mind the produce. I'm a bit hesitant though running it in my car the way it is. 14-16psi on a stock fuel system runs lean enough - will running say 10-15% E85 be more likely to do damage? I need to invest in a cheapy MBC and keep boost down.

MRTurbo
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 11:18 PM (permalink)
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^ if you blow it up, then at least you'll have an excuse to buy an S2K... lol
So how are you controlling boost now?? 
 
I really hope that their "proposed" sites open up soon! (North Adelaide :D)
might shoot off another email to the Biofuels manager.

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MuMan
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Monday, July 18, 2011 11:41 PM (permalink)
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Hard to figure the Aldi thing, I've never been in one, no idea why, maybe something about the name??
10% won't cause any issues, might even solve some. Only thing is going higher might raise the boost a tad, so if your still on the stock HG that could be a worry. Grab one of these..http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turbotech-manual-turbo-boost-controller-ORIGINAL-/220630394267?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item335e98a59b
cheap and they work well.
I'd go with 6-7Lts on a fill-up and see what you get until you get the boost under control.
Those guys over there are used to me turning up with a 20Lt container..I think they have the idea I'm distilling the stuff -:)

"Have you ever noticed when things get set in motion, the heavy end wants to go first."


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