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AWD vs RWD

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MRTurbo
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 0:49 PM (permalink)
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Yeah I never said Subaru is a "proper 4WD", I was just pointing out the fact that they don't use a transfer case.
Earlier Evos just used a viscous coupling-type centre, and the later ones use clutches for the ACD. The latest ACD+AYC system is pretty impressive I must say and has come a long way since the old VR-4 days.
 

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2001 Honda CBR600F4i

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Blue2
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:06 AM (permalink)
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All good. I've also owned a Rexi. Quick, but lets say I had to build a dog box. 
If you seen the latest STis, under heavy cornering, they look like a Silvia because they are so sideways. While it is fun to go sideways, its not always the quickest way to get around the track.

When I got my Evo IX, my mate got a WRX. 8 rear diffs replaced under warranty and 1 clutch 1.5 years into it. Also had to add sway bar to rear and lower it, then flashed it, to make it drive like a stock IX.

GT4 FTW!! :)
Pretty sure Neil Bates Racing team also can put in the Active Centre Diff on GT4s :) 

As we all know, our 2s are pretty reliable. They are not perfect, but if you compare them to what was around at the time, like SR20, they are a better engine in my opinion.
Look at how much they changed from ST165 to ST215, then look at SR20, barely any change throughout the years.
Even the GTiR failed to make Rally LOL

I'm gonna get flamed on the Nissan comment, I know some here are using Nissan parts on their 2s :( I personally couldnt do that to my car. Each to their own :) 
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jdmr288
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:08 AM (permalink)
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Having been on a proper fang through Nebo/Glorious and alot of nice roads up north in my MR2 on an AWD cruise (yes they let me in and these guys can boogie), on those types of roads the MR2 is able to keep up with the Evo's. However, being very familiar with my mate's Evo 8 which he sold a while ago....the amount of grip and lateral G that's created definitely made up for any loss in 'fun factor' over the MR2. The MR2 will point and turn, the Evo will point, turn and grip far easier.
 
Benefits of an Evo - More torque available down low, more space, newer, more grip everywhere. But everyone has them and they just don't have the same feeling as driving an MR2.
 
I sold my MR2 for 2 reasons..1) I wasn't going to spend $10-15k rebuilding the thing when I knew I'd get none of that back. 2) It was getting old. I still miss the old girl but I'm about 3 business days away from driving a 2006 STi home. It's only got a turbo back exhaust, intake and a reflash of the standard ECU and it's pumping out 208awkw and close to 400nm tq. Brembo's with ABS and it grips hard. Does everything the MR2 did but more.

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Blue2
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:32 AM (permalink)
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The Evo IX does lag a bit. Turbine is larger than the previous models and low down sometimes can bog out. But, the Mivec helps nicely, especially on the X. 

I do like the look of the STi, flared guards, but the thing that pisses me off is that the standard WRX has the same body. Previously, it was hard to make a WRX into an STi because the guards were flared etc.. now its easy. Even with EVOs, its way too much work to make a lancer into one.

I got offered to buy a new 06 one for $55k brand new, but I bought the IX for $65k instead. 
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MRTurbo
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:34 AM (permalink)
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Have heard that the Stis do understeer a fair bit though, not sure when they fixed this and I don't know about the latest Stis. I think the AYC in the Evos has been the big difference with taming understeer compared to the WRXs.

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jdmr288
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:48 AM (permalink)
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Yea the AYC/ACD in the Evo is far superior than the center diff in the STi. In the STi you can choose how much "lock" you want on each diff but I think it's limit is 41/59. Anything 2000+ had understeer issues but is easily rectified with a thicker rear swaybar so it seems.
 
I won't be tracking this car however as I can't afford to fix it if it breaks so it's only going to be a weekend warrior and take me to the gym and back during  the week as I use the rip off public transport system to get to work.
 
Didn't the 8MR's have the same turbo as the IX but the IX had the addition of MIVEC over the earlier gens? I saw a X on a dyno with a cat back and intake - made a measily 160awkw, my MR2 made 169.6rwkw on the same night and also pulled 2-3 car lengths on a mildly modded 8MR on the M1 in 3rd gear only.

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MR2QIK
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:52 AM (permalink)
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What were the mods on the 8MR? Flash, piping, exhaust etc will get it to 220awkw & after driving one in that form, I can see it out gunning an SW20 with 160rwkw.

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320rwkw @ 19psi (pump fuel, no giggle gas)
11.96 @ 116mph (with 228rwkw)
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MRTurbo
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:26 AM (permalink)
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LOL @ public transport, yea the trains are bit expensive I was just up there in Brisvegas last week (in the hot weather), caught train from Ferny Grove to town and back  :D
 
What possible advantage has 4WD in a 2l turbo heavier car got in a roll-on anyway??
Standing start the AWD won't help him that much against a MR2. I've heard some MR2's pull better 60 ft times than AWD cars. In a proper launch most of the weight is over the back wheels anyway and its easier to bog a 4WD. 
 
 

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2001 Honda CBR600F4i

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MR2QIK
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:37 AM (permalink)
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No advantage at all, except the 8MR I mentioned would have more power (enough to overcome the weight/drive roll on disadvantage). But hey.....not all Evos are the same.

MR2QIK - "The Little Car That Could"



320rwkw @ 19psi (pump fuel, no giggle gas)
11.96 @ 116mph (with 228rwkw)
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Blue2
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:32 AM (permalink)
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8MR has a smaller Turbo that the IX ADM
But the 8MR wheel is lighter so spools quicker
IX has MIVEC, Larger Turbo, different bumpers designed for better flow
8MR has Functional foglights and HID
 
I doubt that is correct. Evo IX stock will put between 145kw to 165kw stock depending on the day and dyno etc. No way an X will pull that little. Might be a stock reading.

Most evos, after spending $5k to $7k can see around 220kw to 230kw at the wheels.
 
Compressor on the IX is much larger than the VIII.

Also ADM EVOs had launch control, which if you disconnect and blow your clutch and gearbox, the ECU will report it on the datalog somehow. 
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:24 AM (permalink)
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Clutches are fragile in EVOs, then when you put a more aggressive clutch in the transfer case is fragile.  If you want to heavily modify an Evo you'll definitely have to take more of a look at the driveline and associated upgrades when compared to the MR2.
 
Clutch fitment is a nightmare.  I am just going to pay someone to do it next time (I hope there isn't a next time) and I have a hoist in the shed, so go figure that one (ie, its still a nightmare, even with a hoist).  There is not a spare mm to get the transmission back on.  I had to have all the moons of saturn align to get the thing back on.  I had to feed the input shaft into the center sprocket of the clutch at a slight angle (can be done as there is a taper at the end of the input shaft) then slowly and gently lift and slide to clear the frame rail and crossmember.  The problem is probably exacerbated when fitting a twin plate clutch as the centre hub is probably longer then on a single, which probably didn't help my cause.  These was literally no way possible to just lift the transmission and slide the input shaft straight into the clutch hub.
 
Timing belt on the other hand was a dream job (relatively).  The pain in the arse thing I encountered was having to remove the P/S pump and then the P/S Pump bracket just to put a new idler pulley on.  This could have been easily solved by adjusting the shape of the bracket and reshaping the lower timing cover.  The bracket is aluminium and one of the bolts that hold the P/S pump to it was galled up and tore the threads up on the way out.  I had to tap the hole before reassembly, in a tight and arseholic spot (as I didn't want to disconnect all the P/S lines wholesale and remove it from the car) resulting in sore knuckles and the back of the radiator bearing said knuckle marks.
 
Changing the cams over in these cars would be a piece of cake.  Unlike on the MR2 you don't need to be a contortsionist to get the timing covers off.
 
I am getting a set of 1050CC injectors and will buy a pump and run it on E85.  I'll probably pick up 30-40 horse following a reflash (standard ecu is basically fully programmable) and should retain stock reliability.   Pretty sure I've got a bung rear right wheel bearing I have got to replace.
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jdmr288
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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:01 AM (permalink)
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Not sure on the mods on the 8MR, but my mate is friends with him and said he had stuff done to it ie; not stock. He initially got the jump by a good margin as he had more torque down low but by the end of 3rd I had made up the gap and pulled in front.
 
The only thing I don't like about the Evo's is how much boost they run factory. Very possible to see 20+ psi in stock trim while putting out less than 200awkw. A solid reflash/tune definitely helps the cause in both the Evo and STi. The one I'm buying has exhaust/intake/flash and 208awkw is the result. Albeit on the 2.5L motor.

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Re:AWD vs RWD Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:32 AM (permalink)
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Meh, who worries about boost, its detonation that causes damage, your could run 30psi if your fuel allowed without damage.  Evo has probably one of the best intercoolers I've seen in a bog standard car, unlike the MR2 and numerous other cars out there that run a a slightly oversized oil cooler as an intercooler :d
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MRTurbo
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Re:AWD vs RWD Thursday, January 19, 2012 0:22 PM (permalink)
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The Evo 8 MR probably got the jump due to different gearing more than anything. Any turbo car will respond very well with 'just' an exhaust though. My old 250cc bike kept up to my mates Evo I (W/Evo III engine) which had apparently 170+ awkW, and I dare say those things are lighter than a MR2 turbo.
 
But I hear the 'ol 4G63s are inherently fairly resistant to detonation too so 20+psi would also be perfectly safe especially when running E85/flex tune and probably same in most turbo cars too.
 

1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
2001 Honda CBR600F4i

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Blue2
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Re:AWD vs RWD Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:41 AM (permalink)
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Evo 8, 8MR and 9
 
Dump Pipe
Front Pipe
Cat Back
Intake
Boost Controller and Reflash is easy to see 230kw+ if done right.
 
Thats about $5k - $6k right there.

If you reflash a stock one, its not gonna get much gain.

Evo boxes ARE strong. Definately stronger than WRX boxes. However, when you are dumping the clutch at redline to shoot it off like a sling shot, things will break and when they do, its not cheap.

Most people buy an Evo on the idea that its unbreakable and drive it in that way, which often breaks it.
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