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Helpful ReplyBrake Master Cylinder Upgrade

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5SGTE
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/08/10 19:57:09 (permalink)
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Surely you'd have been notified by now if a write off.

Actually I would've expected a call either way by now.
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TwoDogs
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/08/10 20:15:15 (permalink)
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"Assessor tomorrow at the latest"- but yes, not quick.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/11 21:12:20 (permalink)
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Back again, car in much better shape than pre-accidon, pardon my French.
Got a $10k pay out and spent $6k to fix with better paint than prev. The extra $4k paid for the new wheels with proper 45&40mm offsets (steering is lighter/better), a year's rego, boost gauge to go in the dash, sway bar reo plates, working aircon which it never had (yay!). So bang for buck, I recommend finding a blind driver and putting your car in the way.
  Back to the brakes.... just rebuilt the rear callipers and apparently I may be the only person in Oz to buy the $5 special tool which allows the brilliant handbrake mechanism to be reinstalled. Happy to lend it to anyone, but upon completion I can honestly say that I cannot detect any improvement in handbrake action. The only reason I chased after the handbrake was in case it contributed to my low pedal. So now, it is eliminated, but I still have the classic "master cylinder pump" pedal.
 After trying to source a rebuild kit for the m/c, without knowing the state of the cylinder, I've decided to upgrade the m/c
  I just read through this thread and lots of great suggestions have been offered except for the particular combination I have in mind.
 Overrriding is that I need to replace the M/c, but I've decided that early ABS systems are more dangerous than their benefit, especially if you know how to drive. So first, I want to remove the 1990 ABS system, not just turn it off or bypass, but I'd like to go from master direct to slaves and remove any possible air bubbles, sticky ABS valves, etc. In all the thread posts previously, people have changed m/c sizes but retained the old plumbing, abs or no abs, or also combined with larger disk calliper set-ups.
 I'm pretty sure I can find a thread that will help me remove the ABS unit and replace the piping, but after that I still need to select the best M/C and booster.
 All my callipers are stock 1990 and for road use will be adequate.
So has anyone replaced stock m/c + ABS with a non-ABS m/c plus piping ?
 
 
 
 
#48

TwoDogs
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/11 21:50:27 (permalink)
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Forgot to ask.. does the ABS unit determine front/back braking power or is it determined by something else.
I think that the master / slave cyl diameters usually determine the ratio but maybe the ABS unit has a role ?
#49
MCT_MR2
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/12 07:09:31 (permalink)
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The ABS unit has no effect on brake bias. There is a proportioning valve that is fitted in the rear brake lines.

'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/12 09:08:03 (permalink)
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"the classic "master cylinder pump" pedal"
Those symptoms indicate master cylinder could be leaking internally.
 
Delete ABS: You could simply get new pipes made up to bypass it, however before you do that first investigate the master cylinder. 
The brake proportioning valve is located in the pipes between the M/C and the ABS unit.
Obviously, if you make up new pipes to bypass the ABS, you will also need to plumb in the
prop valve.
The pic attached shows a 1" M/C, 94+ booster with prop valve on a car with ABS.
 
 
 
post edited by Reddtarga - 2017/12/12 16:42:23

1990 ADM NA
 
 
 
 
 
 
#51

TwoDogs
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 10:14:30 (permalink)
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 Thanks Guys,
ok I'll go back to my original plan which was to reco the m/c?
Some risk is that the cylinder is bad and new seals may not solve, or wear out quickly.
 
Another q, I see repeated mention of significant improvement later Sdubs had using a different, thinner booster.
Is that something that a 1990 m/c can bolt straight onto ? Or would I need the later model mc/ and callipers.
Until I have reco'd the 1990 m/c I don't know if the brakes will be adequate or not.
 
Another q, I read that the early brakes will fade on the track after a few laps, hence the changes made by Toyota.
I don't know much about that , is it a hydraulic "boiling" or the pad/disk grip issue ?
Does it come on suddenly/dangerously or is it something that progressively worsens ? 
 
 cheers
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Reddtarga
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 11:40:56 (permalink)
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"Another q, I see repeated mention of significant improvement later Sdubs had using a different, thinner booster.
Is that something that a 1990 m/c can bolt straight onto ? Or would I need the later model mc/ and callipers.
Until I have reco'd the 1990 m/c I don't know if the brakes will be adequate or not."
 
Re - read my post on page two of this thread!!

1990 ADM NA
 
 
 
 
 
 
#53
TwoDogs
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 12:30:25 (permalink)
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 Thanks Redd, it seems there are some options available and appreciate the checkvalve comments
 From 5sgte's post immed after yours on P2, he says he bolted the orig fat booster to the later 1" m/c, so that would imply the reverse , a post 94 booster would bolt to the orig 7/8" m/c.  Not saying that's what I'll do, but it seems to indicate that versions will at least bolt together.
 Anyway just ordered the m/c reco kit from USA, then after payment had this anxious thought, "I hope
the m/c is original and not  been upgraded by a previous owner !!??"     Doubt it....
 
cheers, undoubtedly more questions will follow...
#54
Eric
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 13:12:21 (permalink)
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TwoDogs
Another q, I see repeated mention of significant improvement later Sdubs had using a different, thinner booster.
Is that something that a 1990 m/c can bolt straight onto ? Or would I need the later model mc/ and callipers.
Until I have reco'd the 1990 m/c I don't know if the brakes will be adequate or not.
 
Another q, I read that the early brakes will fade on the track after a few laps, hence the changes made by Toyota.
I don't know much about that , is it a hydraulic "boiling" or the pad/disk grip issue ?
Does it come on suddenly/dangerously or is it something that progressively worsens ? 
 
 cheers




There is numerous factors that impact brake performance. 

Brake rotor design and material, pad material, brake fluid, brake cooling and overall size of the components. 

I have tracked the early brakes, they fade over time - It's very progressive and gives you plenty of warning that you need to do some cool down laps. If the car is NA or a stock turbo, you can most likely get away with a good set of rotors such as DBA T3's, a good set of track/street pads and some high temp brake fluid. 

I have upgraded to the DeltaV brake kit, with T3 rotors, race pads and brake ducting. I have never experienced fade with this kit, however it may be surplus to your requirements.

1990 SW20 Hardtop - Supercharged 2GR-FZE
#55
TwoDogs
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 13:29:33 (permalink)
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Thanks Eric, nice description.
It encourages me to leave it all stock (but working better than currently) and then upgrade if necessary.
 
Any reason why I shouldn't mate one of the powerful boosters to a 90 7/8" m/c ??
 
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 14:36:47 (permalink)
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I personally liked the firm pedal that the early model provided. All it will do is decrease the force on the pedal required to brake. 

If I was in your position, I would leave it as is and install some high quality track/street pads with high temp brake fluid. If you feel it needs more assist later, then you could add the other booster.



1990 SW20 Hardtop - Supercharged 2GR-FZE
#57
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/14 14:52:56 (permalink)
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Yep that seems like the plan. 
I look forward to having the pedal firm.
TBH I can't recall the pads I put in.
 
#58
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/15 05:16:37 (permalink)
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This morning, the only place in the US that did not list the reco kit as Discontinued, sent me an email
to say they can't fulfill the order. So looks like I will be fitting an m/c from a different car.
Currently 1990 7/8" ABS - any suggestions ?
Is there a 15/16" m/c with will bolt straight on with similar exit holes for the piping?
and is not so old that reco kits are discontinued ??  :o)
cheers,
 
post edited by TwoDogs - 2017/12/15 07:40:23
#59
5SGTE
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder Upgrade 2017/12/15 08:51:28 (permalink)
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They're interchangeable, just need to keep abs with abs, non abs with non abs to suit the hardlines.
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