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Helpful ReplyKnightrous' House of AW11 (and SW20, and ZZW30)

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Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/05 14:23:51 (permalink)
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Sometimes I do stupid things, this was not one of them...

MCT_MR2
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/06 11:54:49 (permalink)
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Do you plan on boosting the 3mzfe in place of the 1mz?? I'm not entirely sure, so please take it with a grain of salt, but I recall those motors having an awkwardly long stroke, so they dont like to be revved, and the rods aren't the best. But nice pickup, ive been waiting for someone to use the 1mz's big torquey brother.

'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/06 13:54:30 (permalink)
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MCT_MR2
Do you plan on boosting the 3mzfe in place of the 1mz?? I'm not entirely sure, so please take it with a grain of salt, but I recall those motors having an awkwardly long stroke, so they dont like to be revved, and the rods aren't the best. But nice pickup, ive been waiting for someone to use the 1mz's big torquey brother.



3MZ has the exact same 83mm stroke and even shares the same rods as the 1MZ, it just has bigger 92mm bore pistons. According to the internetz, they also share the same problems as the 1MZ's pistons, that where the valve relief drop into the side wall of the piston and produces a weak spot towards the top compression ring. Generalisation suggests around the 300RWHP mark, the stock pistons start failing, while the rods seemed to fail around 500RWHP (WTFAuto was able to bend a few at figures over this).
 
With the 1MZ I was going to use some modified forged 5SFE (5SGTE) pistons as advised by Tristan @ WTFAuto as a replacement for the stock units when they fail and 22R rods can easily be made to fit the 1MZ for when/if I ever went chasing 500HP. However with the 3MZ having a 92mm bore, I cannot find too many piston options, the closest I can find is 22R pistons which is 92mm and has the 22mm small end, but I don't know if deck to small end distance is the same or if the valve clearances / compressions are remotely compatible. Hopefully a bit of research should give me the answers I'm chasing (other wise it might be time to ebay some 22R parts).
post edited by Knightrous - 2014/05/06 15:07:39

MCT_MR2
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/06 19:22:22 (permalink)
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Yeah, after I posted it I checked and found I was wrong. 92mm pistons is getting into subaru territory, but subaru pistons arent exactly great.

'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/07 03:10:24 (permalink)
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The EJ205 has 92mm pistons, but uses an odd sized 23mm wrist pin. After scouring various parts of the internet, it looks like Mitsubishi 6G72 pistons may be pretty close to fitting.
 
The 6G72 uses 92mm bore pistons with 22mm pins, a compression height of 32mm, a -14cc dome (Wiseco) and a 48cc combustion chamber.
The 3MZ uses 92mm bore pistons with 22mm pins, a compression height of 31.2mm, a -1.7cc dome and a 56.3cc combustion chamber.
 
According to Victory Library, to bring the 3MZ down to 9:1 compression, you need to add an additional 12.67cc to the combustion chamber (68.97cc). Using the 6G72 pistons -14cc dome and 0.8mm higher compression height will put the combustion chamber at ~65cc, setting the compression ratio at ~9.5:1, pretty much the place I want to be if I'm adding some boost to it. A slightly thicker head gasket might be useable to bring the compression down to as low as 9:1 if t's really needed.
 
Another bonus is that the 22R rod has the same small end width as the 6G72 pistons, so it will only require machining of the big end width down to 16mm to suit the 3MZ crank.
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/12 00:01:44 (permalink)
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Picked up the 3MZ yesterday and started tearing it down this afternoon.

 
It's sludged up alright!


 
Pulled the sump off to find a bag of parts and the oil pick up floating in the sump.... Someone has already had a look....

 
Found #5's big end cap in the bag, bearings have some marks on them.

 
Upper sump is pretty sludged.

 
Windage tray is moderately clean.

 
Yep, someone has had a look already, all the main bearing bolts are only a few threads in!

 
Bearing #2 is goneski.


 
Minor marks on #4

 
And we have a winner! #1 has spun a bearing and cooked the rod enough that I have to break one rod bolt off with a breaker bar and socket.

 
Half the bearing welded to the crank

 
This crank is probably a bin job, but all is good, the 1MZ crank, rods and bearings are a drop in for the 3MZ, so no real loss!

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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/12 02:00:17 (permalink)
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Par for the course with a kluger engine for my time at toyota - they were the worst serviced cars apart from toyota echos.

Make sure you put an m6 bolt in the scissor gear before you pul the cams out, they can be a fair prick to reset otherwise.

'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/12 08:24:12 (permalink)
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MCT_MR2
Make sure you put an m6 bolt in the scissor gear before you pul the cams out, they can be a fair prick to reset otherwise.


Ah yes, seen a fair share of forum/facebook posts with "I rebuilt my 3VZ/1MZ and now it has a horrible grinding sound coming from the head!".  The crank might still be usable as I was reading some information about someone reducing the crank big end journals down 1mm to fit a VG30 rods and pistons into a 1MZ.
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/12 18:32:37 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Yeah, when I worked at toyota, I had to fix the scissor gears every rime the apprentice forgot to put the bolt in. VG30 rods would be a good option, there quite beefy, and open up options if you want to use forged rods.

'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/12 19:48:26 (permalink)
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Do you know if the VVTI mechanisms generally survive a sludging from hell. I've never had my hands a set of VVTI gears, so not sure on the specific internals or how easy it is to pull them apart.
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/13 07:41:10 (permalink)
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I honestly can't remember in regards to the 1/3mz vvti setup, I did more work with other models, but in general, most of the toyotas ran a small filter in the feed to the solenoid, and the solenoid would usually gum up if the filter failed. As long as you clean up the solenoids, make sure they actuate freely with 12v, and you can get an idea of the state of what the internals of the gear would be like by popping the cam cap of with the oil passages for the gear and having a look.
The cam gears usually have 5 or 3 point security torx, and when you pop the top off, they usually have a rubber sealing ring. As long as you take your time, mark the orientation of everything and are careful you can pull them apart, service them and reassemble. I have a customer that actually modifys the beams cam gears to limit their range of motion to stop him clipping valves as his cams are so big.

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224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/13 23:26:41 (permalink)
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Another project I have just kicked off, MultiGauge.
After my Innovate MTX-L **** it self recently, I decided I was going to make a CANBUS enabled gauge that will talk to the MegaSquirt and provide me with vital information as I need it.
 
Today the final parts I needed to start prototyping the gauge arrived and after a quick bread board assembly, I slapped this test together.

 
This is just a quick cycle from 80C - 100C, where it reaches the 100C coolant temp limit and the alert is set off.
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/20 16:01:19 (permalink)
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Random thought of the day while looking at some xMZ data.
 
3MZ heads onto 1MZ block would give ~9.5:1 compression.
Adequate for some boosted detonation resistance and a little more boost to make up the power loss from the lower compression. Need to investigate to see if I can get some external oil feeds setup for the heads to support the VVTI, alternatively I can always use the 1MZ intake cam instead and remove the VVTI setup.
 
Would be a very quick way to put together a budget 1MZ turbo without worrying as much about the pistons failing. Although knowing that I have a 3.3L block waiting in the shed would be pretty hard to ignore.
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/20 20:36:38 (permalink)
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Seems I missed a few days of progress...
 
Swapped out the factory fuel pump for a Walbro (AKA, BabyPump).


 
 
Then the angle grinder came out....

 

 

 

 

 
Then it was the other sides turn!

 

 
The point of no return has been reached...
 
 
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2014/05/25 22:26:07 (permalink)
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Got busy this afternoon, V6 time!
 
Last mount was removed

 
Pulled the drive shaft solution out of storage, ST185 shafts with SW20 supported shaft.

Consists of ST185 drive shafts and an SW20 supported shaft.

Lifted it up using the trusty old engine crane


Slid the 1MZ under and lowered it down. Bit of a process getting things to clear, but it fits.


Then temporarily swung it to allow me to push the car back into the shed for the night


Will be making a frame and jig to hold the motor up with during the week instead of the straps and pipe.
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