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Helpful ReplyHot!Knightrous' House of AW11 (and SW20)

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Knightrous
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2010/03/20 22:11:17 (permalink)
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Knightrous' House of AW11 (and SW20)

Once again it's time to revise this first post since a lot of things have happened since it was first started....
 
TrackDub - The first AW11 - 1989 ADM AW11

  • 1MZFE 3L V6
  • E153 LSD Gearbox with ST185 supported driveshafts
  • MegaSquirt DIYPNP ECU
  • BC RM 5kg/8kg coilovers
  • Cusco front strut brace
  • Cusco brake master brace
  • Radiator to Bonnet vent, single 12" thermo fan conversion
  • Hydraulic handbrake
  • ST185 twin pot front brakes on 254X25 rotors, SW20 22V rear brakes with 254X22 rotors. TWR race pads and Motul RBF660 brake fluid
  • Side scoop air intake to motor
  • 15X8 -5 Rota Grid Classic rims with R888 tires
  • Semi stripped interior and weight reduction
 
SlushDub - 1988 JDM AW11 - Restoration in Progress....

  • 4AGZE 16V motor
  • A241E automatic gearbox with custom transmission controller
  • 300x280x75 Cooler Pro A2A Intercooler
  • MegaSquirt MS2 ECU
  • Recaro Bucket Seats
  • Mirror finish Targa Tops
  • BBS 15X7" rims
post edited by Knightrous - 2015/11/09 23:33:14
#1
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    RdS
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/21 15:56:54 (permalink)
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    tight fit! looks like the V6's are becoming a more popular conversion for the mr2's. i suppose it would give more power with a more linear delivery, unlike hi-po turbo setups. would make it more like the original was set out to be.. esp the superchager cars with more power/torque straight off the mark...

    nice 2gr-fe setup goin an in adub in the uk.. ;)
    http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131793


    good luck with the project anyway. will be interesting. :)
    #2
    5SGTE
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/21 19:35:50 (permalink)
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    Nice aaron its goin to be tight as in there (just in case you didn't think of that already). Keep up the progress pics.
    #3

    Vinnny
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 10:01:07 (permalink)
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    naiiicee. what are you gonna do for the lateral engine mounts? are you making solid? my engine wobbles alot under heavy aceleration and pops out of gear when i accelerate hard from 1st to second.. need some kind of. brace. or something.
    #4
    aw11gte
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 10:34:38 (permalink)
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    Good stuff. Thats a hell of a project.
    That 2grfe link above looks to be insane amounts of fun.
    #5
    Knightrous
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 11:01:23 (permalink)
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    @RDS: I looked at a bunch of options before deciding on the V6 conversion.
    4AGZE - About the same cost of the 1MZ for less HP and less torque.
    4AGTE - Laggy, more engine bay heat, needs good intercooling. Too much hassle
    3SGTE - Too heavy, too laggy in stock form, fairly expensive. I also don't like the idea of turbo AW11's, something about a glowing red object generating crazy heat in the engine bay puts me off.
    SR16VE - Too much custom work, transaxles, shafts etc etc. Bit of a pipe dream idea.

    The 1MZ was a good option for me, it is only marginally heavier then a 4AGZE, provides plenty of torque and hp with brilliant reliability.

    @XMR20: It's tight, but it's not as bad as you think. Due to the shape of the V6, there is enough room to work above it and below it, very little amount of stuff has to be accessed right against the firewalls. The only issue I found so far was the oxygen sensor on the standard manifolds won't fit in the engine bay due to position, this isn't a big issue as I'll be making my own manifolds and the oxygen sensors will be tucked in towards the block.

    @Vinny: I'm not sure at the moment, once I have fabricated and installed the front motor and gearbox mounts, I'll work on the torque mounts. I have some ideas for semi solid mounts that should only cost me about $15-20 per insert, but it's all to be tested yet. Will burn the bridge when I get to it.
    #6
    RobYob
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 12:54:18 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Knightrous
    3SGTE - Too heavy, too laggy in stock form, fairly expensive. I also don't like the idea of turbo AW11's, something about a glowing red object generating crazy heat in the engine bay puts me off.



    V6 AW11 project is admirable in every respect but I have to disagree that the 3S is heavy and laggy.

    I did find weight comparison 4A to 3S on the web years ago and iirc it was only 30kg.

    This list says the 3SGTE weighs ~180kg.
    http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?p=305863

    And this one says the 1MZ is about the same.
    http://www.35pickup.com/mulligan/weight.txt

    Hope to see your Mk1.6 on the road soon, and if you're ever in Melbourne I'll give you a demo of the 3S lag [:x)]
    #7
    Knightrous
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 14:11:21 (permalink)
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    It's not just the motor itself, it's all the required accessories like intercoolers, piping, turbos, E153 gearbox, turbo shafts etc etc that make it heavier.
    #8
    Whore of Babylon
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 14:23:32 (permalink)
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    I would of gone with a E153 gearbox with N/A shafts, Cause you can do the 5th gear extention mod so your not burning masive amounts of fuel doing a 100kph cruise. Also the E153 is better :P

    24-3-10 Yep sorry guys, cocked that post up [88] Thanks Robyob
    #9
    RobYob
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 15:08:13 (permalink)
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    Isn't it the S54 box that you do the 5g extenion to WoB? You swap in a Corolla diesel 5th gear.
    Or is there one for E153 as well?
    #10
    Knightrous
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/22 16:58:37 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by RobYob

    Isn't it the S54 box that you do the 5g extenion to WoB? You swap in a Corolla diesel 5th gear.


    RobYob is correct, extended 5th gear is for S54.
    quote:
    Originally posted by WOB
    so your not burning masive amounts of fuel doing a 100kph cruise.


    I won't be wasting heaps of fuel because I'll tune it to suit the cruising rpm. E153 is also heavier then S54, which is more weight over the ass end, I'm not building a porsche/vw here
    #11
    RobYob
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/23 11:31:47 (permalink)
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    Extra weight in the engine bay of an Adub is close to the centre of gravity anyway, so it's not like hanging a big mass in the Rse of an old 911.
    How are you going to tune the engine to use less fuel at the revs you'll be pulling on the HWY? You've still got 3 litres spinning away at 3200rpm.
    I want to do the 5th gear mod to my S54 just don't have the $500 spare to do it atm. I should try and organise a group buy through twobrutal or something.

    Keep us updated on the build, the more mk1.5s and 1.6s the BETTER!
    #12
    Knightrous
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/23 13:44:28 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by RobYob
    How are you going to tune the engine to use less fuel at the revs you'll be pulling on the HWY? You've still got 3 litres spinning away at 3200rpm.



    From my understanding (I'm happy to be proved wrong here), fuel usage is more related to engine load then engine rpm. Even though the motor will be running at a higher rpm, it will have less load due to mechanical advantage (more gearing).

    The main reason I believe manufacturers aim for low rpm cruising is purely for less mechanical wear, lower road noise (big thing these days) and emissions (less gas flow, less pollutants). Majority of the V6 conversion run standard ecu's so they don't have provision to go and change the fuel, ignition and AFR's to suit the higher cruising rpm. So they look to lower the 5th gear ratio to bring it closer to the automatic transmissions cruising speed (and the standard ecu's maps).
    #13
    Domma_aw11
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/23 15:49:26 (permalink)
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    hey man, i didnt know u came this far already!!! AWSOME stuff man... please keep sendin the knowledge and pics up!!!
    #14
    RobYob
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    RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/23 17:45:03 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Knightrous
    From my understanding (I'm happy to be proved wrong here), fuel usage is more related to engine load then engine rpm. Even though the motor will be running at a higher rpm, it will have less load due to mechanical advantage (more gearing).


    I've always thought the opposite although it's not my area of expertise. Cruise at 100km/h requires very little power afaik, 30kW or something, so as long as your engine can deliver the requisite torque at whatever rpm you choose to run you should benefit from running as low an rpm as possible, though obviously this isn't compatible with good performance feel.

    New V8 Commodes run both cylinder deactivation and intergalactic gearing for economy

    quote:
    The main reason I believe manufacturers aim for low rpm cruising is purely for less mechanical wear,
    pretty sure that's not the case, lowering rpm, running less trans slip and lower lockup speeds are all ways to get better economy.

    quote:
    lower road noise (big thing these days)
    that IS my area expertise and it's got nothing to do with low rpm engine operation and a lot to do with tyre construction and suspension bushes.

    quote:
    and emissions (less gas flow, less pollutants)
    Less gas flow = less fuel used = better economy.

    quote:
    Majority of the V6 conversion run standard ecu's so they don't have provision to go and change the fuel, ignition and AFR's to suit the higher cruising rpm.
    I don't think you're really free to alter your AFRs to much even with an after market ecu, run to lean and you burn your exhaust valves do you not?

    quote:
    So they look to lower the 5th gear ratio to bring it closer to the automatic transmissions cruising speed (and the standard ecu's maps).

    ecu calibration is usually independent of the gear selected though, all it worries about is rpm and load.

    Not trying to deliberately contradict you, but want to learn your thoughts on this.
    #15
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