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Helpful ReplyHot!Knightrous' House of AW11 (and SW20, and ZZW30)

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cogs
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/23 19:16:11 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous
From my understanding (I'm happy to be proved wrong here), fuel usage is more related to engine load then engine rpm.


Fuel usage is very much related to engine load AND RPM, however contrary to your thoughts SPECIFIC fuel consumption decreases with increasing engine load. By specific fuel consumption I am referring to the fuel flow rate per kilowatt of engine power produced, ie. it could be expressed by the unit l/s.kw (litres per second per kilowatt).

So why is that? - I'm glad you asked! (any of you olds out there remember The Curiosity Show??)

Firstly, there's the matter of internal friction in the engine. An engine running under no load (free revving) is still burning fuel but producing no usable power - the specific fuel consumption is therefore infinite. All the power the engine is producing is being used to overcome its own friction. Now from this point if you start to increase throttle but maintain RPM by putting load on the engine you start to bring down the specific fuel consumption. As load increases more the proportion of engine power overcoming friction reduces, further reducing specific fuel consumption. Once under full load the engine's friction only consumes a small percentage of the total power produced. Higher RPMs also equate to more friction, and more power required to overcome this before any useful power is available.

Secondly, there's the fact that fuel mix compressed to a higher pressure prior to combustion produces usable pressure in the cylinder for a higher proportion of the expansion stroke. This is why diesel engines are so fuel efficient, and also why high compression petrol engines return better economy than equivalent low compression engines. Cylinder pressures increase with increasing engine load, which due to the more efficient extraction of energy from the burning fuel results in lower specific fuel consumption too.

Now to throw a big spanner in the works, specific fuel consumption under constant load also tends to follow a similar curve to the engine's torque vs. RPM curve. As volumetric efficiency increases so too does the engine's ability to extract the available energy from the burning fuel.

The net effect of these factors is that the engine will have an RPM point where specific fuel consumption is at its best for cruise, and this will be very low - close to the point where the torque curve starts to flatten after its initial rise from zero. It may take 35kw to maintain a steady 100km/h cruise, and unless it has wild cams any engine will use less fuel producing the required 35kw at 2000RPM than it will at 3000RPM, because it is fighting less internal engine friction and burning fuel more efficiently at higher pressure.

I'd also like to add my 2c to the E153 vs. S54 debate in regards to fitting a 3SGTE. You don't HAVE to use an E153, and indeed a V6 will be just as capable of breaking an S54 as a 3SGTE. Breaking these boxes happens as a result of abuse, so which box you choose depends on how you intend to drive. If you want to dump the clutch at 6000RPM you're gonna break things eventually, but an S54 will take the torque of a mildly tuned 3SGTE forever if it's treated with respect.
#16
RobYob
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/23 20:09:34 (permalink)
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What cogs says

Adding to the gearbox comment the S54 has stood up remarkably well to four years attached to a Gen3 turbo motor. And while I have raced and hill climbed the car I try not do anything to abusive.
#17
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/24 09:14:51 (permalink)
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Interesting comments in there Cogs, some real food for thought. Will see how I go with the fuel economy
#18

Whore of Babylon
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/24 09:44:45 (permalink)
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Updated my post of failness back on page one :P

I think all engines have a sweet spot where they are most efficient, uk peeps have found the "Needs conformation ->" 2.2ltr camry 5th gear very sucessful on helping fuel economy.
#19
5SGTE
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/24 21:10:16 (permalink)
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Im sure we dont do all this modding to get better fuel economy, you'll be giving crap all the time anyway!
#20
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/24 22:01:43 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by xmr20

Im sure we dont do all this modding to get better fuel economy, you'll be giving crap all the time anyway!



Well maybe with some work in the MegaSquirt I could hack up some "Displacement On Demand" for fuel economy reasons
#21
Domma_aw11
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/25 18:19:32 (permalink)
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wow, very interesting indeed..
#22
AdrianS
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/26 16:46:52 (permalink)
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I'd def. go the taller 5th gear. Most aus delivered cars are tuned to have a "sweet spot" for economy at cruise rpm/throttle (95-115 kph). Several people who have swapped the c'dore v6 (not into an mr2!) and not changed the gearing complain of relatively poor economy at highway speeds. This may be because they are cruising at rpm where the ecu is tuned richer for eg overtaking.
I looked into this when I wanted to put a v6 in my van : the cost of 2x diesel diffs was what put me off, and even they were still too low geared.
Love the ms displacement on demand idea, although there will be interesting vibration/gasflow issues.
#23
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/27 00:45:41 (permalink)
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Gave her a quick blast on the dyno tonight...

Standard Bigport 4AGE with a pod filter. 258000km, no rebuilds. Standard 4AGE Ecu with no Oxygen sensor (running rich...)
Red = 89.9HP, this was run as how it turned up at the workshop.
Green = 86.7HP, this was with 5 degrees more timing wound in on the dizzy, it reduced the peak HP but the mid range picked up around 10-15%. It feels a little better around town now on the butt dyno, but I don't notice the missing 3.2HP...

Next time I'll take it in with the[url='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBsyJoXajOI']2" straight through exhaust[/url] and the megasquirt in it for a blast.
These dyno runs are base line to compare/highlight the future improvements of the car.
#24
fredhoon
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/27 01:53:23 (permalink)
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Awesome stuff.

Pity your not using the E153, otherwise you could have knocked up a jig to use when other V6 engine owners got their arse up out of the chair.

Following on from my Twobrutal PM, adamaw11 is also chasing my rear suspension, so we can sort something out when I'm back with regard to you borrowing it and then passing it along to him (although he may just be after the struts).

90hp of 4AGE powah! What are your hopes for the 1MZ - 160hp atw (conservatively) or there abouts?
#25
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/27 03:12:47 (permalink)
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I'm aiming for a conservative 150RWHP with the 1MZ at the beginning, pushing for 180RWHP with ITB's and tuned exhaust. Then to see if I can push it to 190RWHP maybe 200RWHP with staged injection and variable length intake and possibly some 2mz/3mz cams. For the staged injection, I'm looking at 4AFE 135cc injectors mounted right up close to the ports to provide good down low response and atomization, then have the standard 285cc 1MZ injectors about 10-12" up the intake to kick in up high. From all the articles I've read, 5-10% increase in HP due to a longer atomization time for higher intake velocities. Also a reduction in intake temps is a bonus side affect. The variable length intake is something I've wanted to play with for ages, I have ideas on how to drive this from the MegaSquirt, or a possible stand alone controller. The idea has been used before and was very successful in the Mazda 787B LeMans car. If I can get a 5-10HP gain by chasing the correct runner length across the rev range, I'll be happy!

If Adam is chasing 87+ rear struts, Randomist should have a pair from his wreck.
I can bring a compressor and rattle gun with me to speed up removing parts off your wreck.
Give me your E153 for a few weeks after I get the S54+1MZ sorted and I'll make up a jig for you in the shell. It might be useful for me also if I start breaking S54's and need to upgrade to the E153
#26
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/30 00:05:35 (permalink)
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Some other stuff I got done on Friday before the dyno run... My little <$50 racing exhaust! I was short on money, so I had to do things really budget and ghetto spec. It turned out quite nice though, first time welding exhaust tubing in about 5 years.











Unfortunately it's so stupidly loud it's not even possible to creep around the streets with it on.
Youtube video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBsyJoXajOI doesn't even come close to doing it justice in the loud department...
#27
Senor_2
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/03/30 00:33:55 (permalink)
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Nice work I like a good project thread; your neighbours must hate you with that straight pipe!
#28
Knightrous
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/04/19 23:28:05 (permalink)
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Another update!

Well more of a planning update then anything, but virtual progress is still progress!

Tonight I decided it was time to get serious and get more work done on these exhaust headers so I can start buying the parts to make them!

I spent some time mixing and matching things and finally got the runner lengths within 3.26mm of each other from shorted to longest!

Runner A = 400mm
Runner B = 398.16mm
Runner C = 401.42mm

All tubing is 1.6mm (1/16") wall thickness. Primaries are OD 44mm (1 3/4") walled tubing, secondaries from the merger down are OD 51mm (2"), both banks then merge down under the sump into a 63mm (2.5") where it will either run through straight pipe with a 3"/4" resonator for track days and some random tip or a 2.5" metal cat converter followed by a standard SW20 Turbo exhaust with twin exits and quad tips (my little bit of rice).

Just need to make a mock up now to make sure they clear everything here.

Have a feeling the rear bank is going to be very close to the right hand driver shaft and oil filter (Which will get relocated anyway as it's in a poo poo spot for servicing...)
#29
RobYob
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RE: Knightrous' MZW11 & AW11 2010/04/21 14:06:28 (permalink)
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Those headers look great, I hope they package!
Good to see progress on another mk1.6.
#30
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