Go back to home

Cracked block

Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2 - Powered by APG vNext Trial
Author
just_ace
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 2508
  • Scores: 89
  • Reward points: 4598
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: perth wa Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 18:37:42 (permalink)
0
Hmm, I'll take your word for it. The spec list was for celicas.

I wouldn't be surprised if the caldina and Mr2s got the higher lift intake. Being that mr2s don't have traction issues like a Fwd and the caldinas we're later model.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they fitted all 97+ 3sge's with the better Cam.

Any idea on what year the motors are?
#16
kameleon
Supporter
  • Total Posts : 2733
  • Scores: 106
  • Reward points: 6018
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: melbourne vic Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 18:48:20 (permalink)
0
Still think you should just use the proper rwd engine :)
 
Where you from and what brought you here foxtail? youre rattling off so many engine combos that it seems like you just need to stop killing weak things and go for a strong bugger off the bat!
 
In that case 5sfe block with whatever head you fancy all the way imho.
#17
foxtail
MR2 Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 15
  • Scores: 0
  • Reward points: 39
  • Joined: 2012/12/07 20:18:03
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 20:16:13 (permalink)
0
Yer the problem is no one tells people about the cracking block problem until u crack one and go looking :( I will use a 5s block soon, but that requires new pistons, and the 5s crank is an abortion. It it worth all the machining and money for the extra stroke? Probably right about celica vs caldina, but I know the red top beams was only in mr2 and celica but grey top was in caldina and rav4. I threw away my turbo head and block cause my fuel rail didn't fit. I own razorback ecu, and a few years ago got rid of all my 4a stuff and went to 3s, so much nicer to drive. Will have my second 3s ke70 on the road soon (will then have 2 cause I tend to brake things often)
#18

foxtail
MR2 Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 15
  • Scores: 0
  • Reward points: 39
  • Joined: 2012/12/07 20:18:03
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 20:20:03 (permalink)
0
I have had over 40 cars, everything from 20v to twin charged 4a to supercharged 3sgte and now a 11s gt3071 3s ke sedan. I don't sell razorbacks anymore, just build them for myself. Will build up a twin turbo 1mz or 2gr soon.
#19
kameleon
Supporter
  • Total Posts : 2733
  • Scores: 106
  • Reward points: 6018
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: melbourne vic Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 20:39:28 (permalink)
0
2.2l crank in the 5SFE block will only require mods if you plan on using 3s rods (which you would), offset grind is all it would recieve.
#20
foxtail
MR2 Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 15
  • Scores: 0
  • Reward points: 39
  • Joined: 2012/12/07 20:18:03
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 20:48:31 (permalink)
0
Actually you dont offset grind them unless you have custom pistons like the ATS 2.3 stroker does (and ATS won't sell you those pistons!) You centre grind them for off the shelf pistons. The 5s crank does not have the knife edge that 3s cranks have to stop oil splash, also the 5s counter weights are way different. You would have to get a lot of balancing done after grinding. But my question is can you actually notice the difference when you drive it?
#21

kameleon
Supporter
  • Total Posts : 2733
  • Scores: 106
  • Reward points: 6018
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: melbourne vic Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/08 21:19:05 (permalink)
0
The 2 second answer is yes.
#22
just_ace
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 2508
  • Scores: 89
  • Reward points: 4598
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: perth wa Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/09 01:09:14 (permalink)
0
you don't have to use the 5s crank, you could just fit a 3s crank to the 3s block. it's what i'm doin with my build.
 
i'm after rpm so i've also changed the rod/stroke ratio. 4mm longer rods, custom pistons and vvti head.
 
if you want to go nut's Totenkopf has billet 5s cranks, mains sized to suit 3s rod sizes and PCD to suit 3s flywheels.
 
the 3s block weakness is common knowledge, much like how everyone wants a 7 rib block when building a 4a. but if you haven't researched/talked to those that have been playing with them then you wouldn't know, and run of the mill engine builders wouldn't either.
 
#23
MR2QIK
MR2 Deity
  • Total Posts : 2015
  • Scores: 106
  • Reward points: 3479
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: Sydney NSW Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/09 10:19:22 (permalink)
0
Give up on the 3S block. Cracked 2 & the last one had decent sleeves too. 5S block is the way to go if you don't want a 7th round.

Seen just about every 3S block crack including some grout filled & sleeved examples.

Yes, the extra displacement is worth it :) I rev too 8500/9000rpm with my 5SGTE & my GT35R hits 20psi before 4500rpm. Driveability off boost is great too. You'll touch same kinda power numbers with a 3S crank, but strokers are more driveable IMO.

MR2QIK - "The Little Car That Could"



320rwkw @ 19psi (pump fuel, no giggle gas)
11.96 @ 116mph (with 228rwkw)
#24
foxtail
MR2 Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 15
  • Scores: 0
  • Reward points: 39
  • Joined: 2012/12/07 20:18:03
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/09 12:17:37 (permalink)
0
Ok I will use a 5S block!
Who did your longer rods just_ace?  I spent a week trying to find someone to make rods for me and I gave up.
How much are the billet cranks?
Thanks for the info guys!
 
 
#25
just_ace
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 2508
  • Scores: 89
  • Reward points: 4598
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: perth wa Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/09 13:25:40 (permalink)
0
I got mine made by pauter via gorilla industries.

I think Totenkopf had the cranks for $1700, he needed a minimum order to get them made even tho he only wanted 1 for himself.
#26
B24
Supporter
  • Total Posts : 2405
  • Scores: 278
  • Reward points: 5936
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: Sydney NSW Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/09 17:01:47 (permalink)
0
Are you breaking blocks due to the tune?
After reading some of the threads on the cracking blocks, the tune/detonation tops the list. Can you look at a data log to see whats happening leading up to the block cracking?
Im sure the waterpump has some effect too as its under a lot of load as it works off the timing belt. It is also hangin off the side of the block with a poor looking flow design. If I had the desire down the track, I would like to change it to something better. The electric water pump is the first step but there is more to be done.
Another point could be a semi rigid mounted engine in a 'loose' chassis causing strees on the block under load but like the above, just a theory.
 
 
 
#27
foxtail
MR2 Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 15
  • Scores: 0
  • Reward points: 39
  • Joined: 2012/12/07 20:18:03
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/10 13:39:04 (permalink)
0
It is possible that it may have been pinging.  I wouldnt have been able to hear it with my helmet on, and I did add a couple of extra psi for the last few runs.  I did one run, and near the finish line it filled up the air filter with oil (blow by).  Last time that happened to me I had broken a ring land, so I though it was all over.  I cleaned up all the oil, and to my supprise it ran fine so I did another 2 runs and drove home.  It was days later that I noticed the overheating problem, and a burning plastic smell.  Took the head off to change the gasket (wasnt a cometic, more like a metal ACL), and was devoed to find the hairline crack in no2.  I had almost the same HP from my 4A without issue and I gave the 4A a much harder time.   Its a street car so stock mounts.  I was running 0.5mm over SPS pistons.  I am building up a '98 3SGE block with SRP pistons (86mm) to get me out of trouble and I will limit boost to 21 rather then the 25 peak I was running, while I save for either an ATS 2.3 stroker (bargain at $3100, but the freight is $1200+ and then you get hit with duty and GST, so its more like a $5-6k bottom end), or a 5SGTE.
I notice JE and CP dont sell pistons for 5S block with 3S crank :(
#28
MR2QIK
MR2 Deity
  • Total Posts : 2015
  • Scores: 106
  • Reward points: 3479
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: Sydney NSW Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/10 13:57:52 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Whilst detonation can have an effect, the 3S block has certainly proven to be a weak link. I monitored my last engine religiously (FC knock & audibly) & can confidently say detonation did not have a role in my last block failure. Didn't pick up any detonate in the 3yrs before it cracked nor were their signs of any when the motor was taken apart. The block is simply a weak point. You can have relatively conservative timing etc & it'll still crack if you're at or beyond its limit.
 
Why would you buy an ATS bottom end, when you can build one locally for noticeably less.
 
$200-400ish for the block
$1000 for pistons & rods
$500 for misc stuff (rod bolts, bearings, HG etc)
$500 in machine work
 
Those are pretty generous figures too. If you're only getting pistons then it's even less.

MR2QIK - "The Little Car That Could"



320rwkw @ 19psi (pump fuel, no giggle gas)
11.96 @ 116mph (with 228rwkw)
#29
dwyer125
MR2 Enthusiast
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Scores: 1
  • Reward points: 4121
  • Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
  • Location: Geelong/Warrnambool Vic Australia
  • Status: offline
Re:Cracked block 2012/12/10 14:41:55 (permalink)
0
JE and CP pistons for 5S block with 3S crank would be the usual 3S pistons but in 87mm
#30
Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2 - Powered by APG vNext Trial
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Trial Version 5.5