track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
Okay so my over fuelling issue is still there. I thought it was all fine but went to start the car today and it seized (overfuelling). So I straight away pulled the spark plugs out as someone had told me that it seizes if the cylinder fills with fuel as it can't compress the liquid. Spark plug on cylinder 1 was soaked, all other were dry. So I know cylinder 1 is overfuelling. Here is my big question. I pulled the injector plug off cylinder 1 and cylinder 4 to test (as these are the only ones I can access easy) with a multimeter. Both did the exact same thing. When I turn the key to start, not cranking the engine over, they get about 10volts or so (initial fuel pulse) but then the voltage will slowly drop till it reaches 0. It take about 20 seconds or more to drop for say 7-8volts down till it reaches 0. Is this normal? I'm trying to determine if there is a fault with the injector being stuck open or if the ECU is stuffed. I know that the fact cylinder 1 has a soaked plug and the others didn't point to injector 1 issue but the 20seconds for the injector to drop to 0 volts seems odd to me, however I am no expert on injector pulses. Any definitely know the answer?
|
-Totenkopf-
Moderator
- Total Posts : 1356
- Scores: 18
- Reward points: 5145
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/08 20:43:07
(permalink)
Checked all the grounds etc? On back of intake manifold and engine to chassis?
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/08 20:53:08
(permalink)
Yeah grounds are connected and all seem fine. I just need to know if this voltage reading is normal as there is nothing I can find on the internet about it. The injector signal voltage drop from 8v down to 0v is like a capacitor discharging but I don't know if that normal especially for that length.
|
Blue2
MR2 Aficionado
- Total Posts : 252
- Scores: 6
- Reward points: 3844
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 00:10:03
(permalink)
I made extra earthing cables.
Throttle body top bolt to chassis Plug loom bolt to chassis Double earth on head bolt opposite oil cap to under strut top
Up to you where you put them but I did those and they helped
Are they new plugs?
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 08:31:13
(permalink)
Actually all good. Most likely its injector 1 stuck open. They siad if the ECU does the same thing on plug 4 and plug 1 then it would be working right. I'll do a test tonight where i'll unplug injector 1 so its getting no fuel pulse, then crank the engine and see if the plug comes out wet. That will tell me if its stuck open.
|
wiso
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 248
- Scores: 40
- Reward points: 3122
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Sydney NSW Australia
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 13:22:44
(permalink)
are you talking 3SG*? normally with toyota wiring for injectors its always 12v. it doesn't get lower (maybe 11v or so for normal running drop). 2 wire injectors have 1 constant 12v power which is the main sensor power coming from the EFI main fuse/B+. and then the ECU grounds the other wire in batches. grounds 1&4 together and 2&3 together. so if your getting 7-8v or whatnot that is odd. unless 3S motors are completely different to all other toyota motors/electrics If your running the motor and have a mutlimeter on it though it might explain it, the pulses are way too fast for a multimeter to catch. so if your holding the pointers bewteen the 2 wires on the injector plug this won't be giving you any good readings you can do anything with.
87' AW11 4AGE 00' ZZW30 1ZZFE 01' ZZW30 1ZZFE Race car Edition
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 15:26:23
(permalink)
Yeah I was doing to the test wrong. I had placed the positive and negative into either side f the connecctor. Instead I have to check one side at a time. Yeah one should be12v constant and the other should receive a pulse probably too fast to read unless testing with an anoid light I'll do a retest tonight the right way. Been a while since I wired up an ecu, all I kept remembering were the ECU's ground negative. It's a Gen 3 MR2 by the way witha mines chipped ecu. I'm fairly confident the ecu will be alright. If i see a constant pulse from one end of the injector plug I know its the ECU telling the injector to stay open. If not I either have a fully stuck or partcially stuck open injector, a leaking injector, a damaged oring or a sticky injector. Either way with the last 4 the injector has to come out. I ordered a set of new injectors already.
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 16:20:06
(permalink)
Actually Wiso reading your last post about the injection being batched 1&4 and 2&3, I'm almost certain its a injector fault. I thought the Gen 3 3SGTE might be sequential injection? If its batched then definately is the injector otherwise cylinder 1 and 4's plugs should both be soaked in petrol.
|
wiso
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 248
- Scores: 40
- Reward points: 3122
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Sydney NSW Australia
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 19:44:08
(permalink)
easy to tell if it is batched. pull the connectors on 1&4 and check continuity between the 2 grounding wires. not the power. if they have continuity they are batch. if not they are sequential. if sequential could still be an ecu problem. if sequential i would check for continuity between the ground on problem injector and a body ground.
87' AW11 4AGE 00' ZZW30 1ZZFE 01' ZZW30 1ZZFE Race car Edition
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 21:42:32
(permalink)
I'm not sure what you mean by checking the continuity between the ground wires? Checked the positive side its receiving 12volts. I did a few test today to work out if its the injector or ECU but still can't tell. I know that the injector is not stuck permanently open. Okay so before doing anything today I pulled the spark plug out to see if the cylinder was filled with fuel (incase the injector is leaking when closed or stuck open) there was no fuel in the cylinder. Unplug the injector and started the car with no spark plug in, no fuel came flying out. Plug the connector back on started the car without the spark plug in, no fuel came flying out so still an intermittent problem. Put the spark plug in started the car and all running fine doesn't smell of fuel. Checked the spark plugs, cylinder one plug was a bit wet, just slightly all the others were dry. Started the car again and unplug cylinder 4's injector plug while running. the idle dropped and engine was stumbling. Did the same test on cylinder 1, the engine also stumbles BUT not as noticeable as cylinder 4. It still runs a bit different but not as bad as cylinder 4 being disconnected. I pulled the plugs out again and they were all dry. So I know its not completely stuck open however yesterday it did put enough fuel in on cranking (after not being started for 3 days) to hydraulically lock the cylinder. So I'm not sure what the issue is. Either the ECU is intermittently telling the injector to open fully sometimes or the injector gets stuck open sometimes....Can a fully open injector put in enough fuel to hydraulically lock the cylinder on cranking or would it have to leak fuel in over night?
|
cogs
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 511
- Scores: 40
- Reward points: 5597
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/09 23:25:19
(permalink)
The chamber volume is around 50cc, and the injectors are 540cc/min. Therefore the injector could supply enough fuel to hydraulic lock in 5.5 seconds. The inlet valve opens every second rev, so if it's cranking faster than 22RPM then it can't lock. It should be cranking 10 times faster than that. There isn't enough accumulated volume in the fuel system to supply 50cc with the fuel pump not running, so it wouldn't be dribbling in overnight either. I've hot and cold started and driven (to get it home) a 3SGTE with a mechanically stuck open injector, and it never hydraulic locked. It just blew a lot of smoke and smelt like crap. Are you sure it's all fuel? Coolant seeping through the head gasket or a cracked head/block overnight could and often does lock an engine, and fresh fuel injected when attempting to start will give it a fuel smell.
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/10 08:00:50
(permalink)
It definitely seems like fuel. There was 4liters of fuel added to the oil in the sump and it smells strongly of fuel. When it happens you can smell fuel coming out the exhaust and basically everywhere. Also when the issue happened and I cranked it with spark plug out, it was definitely fuel coming out the plug hole. When the car is started and running I've never had it hydraulic lock, only on starting up. It's definitely isolated to the one cylinder too. Does anyone know for sure if the Gen3 Turbo's run batched injection 1&4 or if its sequential?
|
dasic1
Moderator
- Total Posts : 1323
- Scores: 83
- Reward points: 5910
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: melbourne vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/10 10:43:10
(permalink)
Im pretty sure its batched. If your worried about the injectors its pretty cheap to get them flowed Was it your car that has extra injector added?
|
track_mr2
MR2 Scholar
- Total Posts : 411
- Scores: 25
- Reward points: 3342
- Joined: 2012/09/17 15:42:32
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/10 14:17:26
(permalink)
Mines not running any extra injectors but I've got a whole new list of problems now. I haven't been able to get the hydraulic lock on start up to happen again. So I put the piping and all back on and took it out for a drive. The ECU has started to register error code 47, which I can't find any info about. I clear it drive and it comes back. Also the exhaust temperature light comes on after about 1minute of driving. I pulled out the plugs and all of them are white so now its running lean when driving. Also it wont rev past 6,500 - 7,000rpm. I tried on low boost 10psi and high boost 16psi and it wont rev past 6,500rpm to 7,000rpm. I've got a new ignitor, coil, spark plugs, leads, distributor cap and button. If it was spark related I would expect it to happen earlier in the rev range when trying high boost. Might be the knock sensor kicking in because of the engine running lean? Any ideas why the exhaust temps are going crazy? The pipe is not glowing red of anything. Could it just be my ECU going nuts? It's a mines chipped ecu so no rev limit etc...
|
wiso
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 248
- Scores: 40
- Reward points: 3122
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Sydney NSW Australia
- Status: offline
Re: ECU / INJECTOR ISSUE!!! Any ECU experrts out there?
2013/08/10 15:46:00
(permalink)
by continuity i mean checking to see if there is a circuit. usually when you check for electrical issues you usually check resistance in a wire rather than voltage.
turn you multi meter to the ohm (omega) symbal. then put 1 pointer on the ground wire for injector 1 and put the 2nd point on the ground wire for injector 4. if the multi meter has an ohm reading it means the 2 wires are connected at the ecu. if the meter reads blank or nothing it means the ecu has individual triggers.
87' AW11 4AGE 00' ZZW30 1ZZFE 01' ZZW30 1ZZFE Race car Edition
|