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4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes.

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worldwalker
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2013/04/23 19:35:14 (permalink)
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4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes.

Reposting from Toyomods to better my chances of fixing this!
 
Hi guys,

I'm trying to suss out an idle and hesitation/load issue with my 4AGZE. I figured I'd start with a search and have looked at all the obvious.

The idle problem is the "common" issue: Ticks over fine (first time every time), revs up to about 1800 then settles at about 14-1500. 

If its warmed and left parked eventually idle comes down and settles about 900RPM, revs fine, runs fine, timing is good, the only problem is as its warming up the idle is up and down +-100rpm every couple of seconds until it finally settles. 

If its driven, whether its allowed to warm up completely first or before its completely warm, the idle issues begin. The idle can be anywhere from 1400-2000rpm. Sometimes it looks like it's starting to drop then it surges back up. When its at this point, unplugging the TPS and ISC can bring the revs back to about 1000-1100 but thats it and once they're back on the RPM is back up. The only thing that drops the RPM back to the set idle is unplugging the coolant sensor but that throws a code. 

The hesitation/low power is only below 2,500-3000rpm and it feels as if the engine is labouring with no load (whole car shudders), as the revs creep theres a hesitation then it surges and away she revs (feels like really bad turbo lag). Cruising anywhere around 2000-2500 and the whole car shudders at the sight of an incline and the exhaust sounds like a trombone. It also bucks a little cruising at this rpm too, nothing drastic but the worse the idle the worse the bucking. Finally, its impossible to take off from the line without massive clutch slip. If its idling at 2000rpm it does not want to drop below this, again the whole car starts shuddering and kicking like its on the verge of stalling.

The cars an AW11 4AGZE Manual running Auto ECU, with the neutral start bridged (possibly should be disconnected after start?) and the Auto computer disconnected; though, I've just found that while this doesn't throw codes it alters the throttle voltage and possibly others?

I've checked the coolant temp sensor and compared it with another.
Checked the AFM
checked the vac lines
bled the coolant
checked the ISC
timing is set to 8DTOD.
earths are good and ran extra to try to alleviate the issue.
New plugs
new diz
leads are ok
and spent hours getting the TPS perfectly within tolerance (surprisingly hard to get 0.8Ko at closed and infinite at .65mm).
All ok.

Finally I've checked the ECU and not so good.

TPS-ECU ohms VTA-E2 0.77 closed (0.2-0.8 tolerance) Open 1.77 (3.3-10 tolerance) Where did the rest of the 3.5ko I measured at the TPS get lost?
(IDLE/THA/THW-E2 all ok)

TPS-ECU Volts IDL-E2(open only) (auto comp off) 4.55V, (auto comp on) 11.55V. AT tol 10-14V MT tol 4-5V
VTA-E2 (trottle closed) 0.51V tol 0.1-1V, Open 3.05V tol 4-5V

W-E1 1.57V tol 0.5V or less.

Everything else was ok...

Another issue I've noticed is my temp gauge never stays still! I've checked the sensor and compared with another and its fine; but its bouncing around like a yo-yo (not physically bouncing, just never stays at one temp). Again if the car is left parked it climbs fans come on and everything is stable. If I drive it, the temp drops back to cold within a few mins at 40-50km/h regardless of how I drive.

I've done all the suggested quick fixes but can't seem to trouble shoot a solution. My best guess is the ECU is confused by sensors but is happy to accept the signal and just adjusts as it sees fit.

EDIT:
 
I've had a bit more of a play around and not much luck, tried it with the auto comp on and same deal. 

The leads are all about 8Ko.

It now sounds like its pinging while free revving but the timing is staying advanced. 

It really seems like its something to do with the cooling sensing side but everything there is working fine, the only thing the computer is getting wrong is the VTA-E2 and I have no idea where the resistance drop could be coming from (or how its even possible). 

This is the most confusing part! How is it possible for resistance to drop between the sensor and the computer but if the sensor is unplugged increases to infinity? I'd have thought it was a leak but jumping to open when its unplugged indicates to me thats not the case.

I've attached a photo of the plugs for no reason at all.
 

 
EDIT 2:
Ok, I've isolated the leak to the E2 wire link in the AFM. Its meant to be there. I've checked it against a second loom, second AFM and second TPS and its designed that way. The back up set does exactly the same, with the AFM plugged in, TPS output reaches 2ko (under tolerance) with the AFM unplugged TPS output reaches 6.5Ko (right in the middle of tolerance). I've double check timing again and its still fine. I've triple checked the temp sensing and its all exactly within spec, yet it runs perfect when its disconnected. What am I missing?
 
Any help?
 
Thanks
 
Nick
#1


33 Replies Related Threads

    Mrskylighter
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/23 20:28:18 (permalink)
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    I'll start with an obvious question. Have you tried another known working ecu? Preferably a manual one?
     
    Have you opened the lid on the ecu to visually check for damaged electronic components on the circuit board?
    #2
    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/23 21:03:56 (permalink)
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    I've done a visual inspection of the ECU but short of checking the resistance of every component not sure what more, other than if something is burned out, looking will tell me.
     
    Unfortunately I don't have another ECU to test out. I'm still waiting for an AFM Dizzy ECU to come up for sale.
     
    Nick
    #3

    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/23 21:05:25 (permalink)
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    I've found another set of leads with lower resistance I'll chuck them on too. Can't hurt.
     
    And timing is up to 10BTDC and idle set to 900RPM.
     
    post edited by worldwalker - 2013/04/23 21:45:16
    #4
    Mrskylighter
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/23 21:53:22 (permalink)
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    What is your location? Maybe someone on here close by to you would let you try their ecu for 5-10mins before you commit to buying another one.
    What is the part number of the ecu you would like to be using? The manual one. There are some on Ebay in Japan and HK it seems but are rather expensive $200+
    #5
    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/23 22:12:37 (permalink)
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    I'm In Perth, hopefully someone has seen something similar.
     
    The correct ECU would be 89661-17230.
    #6

    Mrskylighter
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    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/23 22:24:44 (permalink)
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    They look like earlier ECU's. 86-88, there was a change 88-89. Thanks for the links! I'll hit him up and see if I'm lucky!
     
    Nick
    #8
    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/24 19:20:22 (permalink)
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    Ok, replaced the thermostat and have sorted the iffy high idle But still have hesitation issues and now a hunting issue on overrun. The shudder is still there when you try to slip the clutch at idle and obviously the voltage problems are still there.
    #9
    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/25 00:27:13 (permalink)
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    The hesitation is definitely between 2000-3000 RPM and there is a miss at 2700rpm. It also feels really abrupt when the SCer engages. Under light load and light throttle, when the SCer kicks in, it really clunks! 
     
    Any idea where this could be from or if the clunk is normal?
    #10
    wiso
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/25 08:53:34 (permalink)
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    the SC clunk will be an unrelated item. the clunk just means that the supercharger is old and all the clutch material is worn off. while the clutch is elctro magnetic the material won't affect the operation but it was there to dampen the impact when the magnet activated. now the metal clutch is just touching the metal pulley when it engages so it makes a clunk. 

    87' AW11 4AGE 
    00' ZZW30 1ZZFE
    01' ZZW30 1ZZFE Race car Edition
    #11
    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/25 11:58:05 (permalink)
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    Is there any way of repairing this to reduce the clunk?
    #12
    wiso
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/04/28 18:26:17 (permalink)
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    i have heard of people pulling the clutches appart and putting a damper between them. what type of material you would use i am not sure something that has good grip but won't stop the magnetics. maybe a rubber pad?

    87' AW11 4AGE 
    00' ZZW30 1ZZFE
    01' ZZW30 1ZZFE Race car Edition
    #13
    worldwalker
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/05/01 23:03:27 (permalink)
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    Ok to update this, other than the voltage issues I can't fix and don't understand as its the same on 2 looms with and without the computer plugged in, the issue is now isolated to a hesitation below 3000RPM. Normal driving RPM between 2000-3000RPM (possibly lower but hard to test conclusively), the engine just seems to load up but really struggles to accelerate,  then as the revs increase the engine noticeably surges and hesitates as it passes 2,500 and 2,700RPM with a great surge of power at 3000 and away we go. The engine itself sounds like its really struggling, heavy labouring and the exhaust sounds really deep and drony. The throttle also becomes very touchy around 2500-3000rpm (harsh on and off), clutch slip has also become very difficult at running temp, the engine needs at least 1200RPM to slip the clutch smoothly, any less and the engine shudders quite heavily. When under light throttle it's not as noticeable but I think that's more of a perception and load than the severity of the fault (as the clutch slip issue would indicate)
     
    The issue is, this has now just come back. I had managed to sort this out somehow, the car drove perfectly for about 20 min, pulled from 1500RPM like a SCed engine should, power delivery was smooth and consistent with a constant increase in torque then hard pull from 3000. I turned the engine off, checked a loose wiring on the battery for a temporary boost gauge, started up and the problem was apparent as soon as I started to drive (couldn't clutch slip).
     
    I'm planning on replacing the leads however I've inspected them all and they're all around 8kOhm (might be leaking though), I've checked the coil and its within limits the plugs, cap and rotor are brand new (less than 50km since the engine was first started). Replaced the AFM with a spare which looked in better condition, replaced all vac lines (except the front line to booster), new fuel filter, checked timing again, added temporary earth straps. TPS couldn't be adjusted better, ICV is functioning.
     
    I've noticed when running the timing light on the primary lead it misses every now and then and the revs, timing and sound alter fractionally but it doesn't sound as if the engine has a big miss or anything sinister, if it wasn't for the light it would be almost imperceivable. Trying to work out if this is a dead coil, ignitor or maybe just an earth or lead leak (or normal)? I haven't noticed it on the No1 lead but it might be a chance thing. 
     
    Anything in there that I could have missed to cause this hesitation issue? 
     
    Cheers,
     
    Nick
    #14
    Kookabanus
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    Re: 4AGZE ECU issues but no fault codes. 2013/05/02 08:24:10 (permalink)
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    You describe a very similar problem that I have, I find mine to also feel as if something is restricted, either air/fuel up until it hits around 2800-3000 RPM, then it feels as if that restriction is lifted and the car surges on. I've lived with it for a while now and havent been able to find a solution so I'm keen to see if you find one.
    #15
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