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Dry Sump?

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Tree
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2013/04/19 14:41:34 (permalink)
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Dry Sump?

I've seen these words come up a few times and after checking out reddtarga's car I started to ponder if the stock oil system was adequate for track driving on semi's aka more than 1g's. I'm probably overreacting here but I think with good suspension and decent brakes with semis on an MR2 it's capable of achieving over 1g even just a little. I've heard it's costly tho and to be honest I think it's overkill for a mostly street driven car (with high limits) but the risks are still there lol
I also read a certain article were they said there was barely sufficient oil in the sump :S
Maybe there is a less hardcore and cheaper version short of going dry sump? Does your electric pump work while driving too red?
Thoughts?
#1


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    track_mr2
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 14:55:49 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Dry sump setups are very, very expensive. There are other options such as enlarged sumps with baffels. Look up baffeled racing sumps. You can also do various differnt sump shapes with modified oil pickups etc...
    I used a baffelled race sump with windage tray one of my race cars.
    #2
    Knightrous
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 16:13:41 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    If your super worried, you could always look at an accumulator, they are much cheaper then a dry sump.
    http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13600
     
    Basically it's a pressurized oil canister with another 1-2L of oil. If your engine oil pressure starts to drop, it starts feeding back into the motor. This will help out on those tight, high G corners where the oil pump might suck a bit of air for a second or two.
    #3

    Reddtarga
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 18:12:11 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    "Does your electric pump work while driving too red?"
    It does and it is controlled by the oil temp sender to pump oil through the cooler,but I didn't fit it specifically for what you are worried about.
    In that respect it would not help, even though it increases the total oil capacity by a couple of liters.
     
    "Maybe there is a less hardcore and cheaper version short of going dry sump?"
    Yes for what you are worried about, as Knightrous says an accumulator would be the cheapest way to go. 
    In the meantime just keep a close check on your oil level, and pay attention to your oil pressure and oil temp gauges.
    Check out:
    http://popular.ebay.com/misc-a-b/accusump.htm
     
    post edited by Reddtarga - 2013/04/19 18:21:53

    1990 ADM NA
     
     
     
     
     
     
    #4
    MCT_MR2
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 20:09:21 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    id also recommending that you run a slightly bigger sump when you use an accsump, particularily when 2lt or bigger. if fitted with the pressure sensor and electric valve, they only refill the accumulator when you have sufficient oil pressure. if you have a time when you go through a long corner (ie. the first boob at winton, they can pump 2 litres into the engine, and until the accusump fills back up, you have that extra oil in the pan, which can cause its own problems. so consider an accusump in conjunction with or after you have a bigger baffled sump.

    '88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

    224.6KW @ 20PSI

    more to come......
    #5
    Knightrous
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 20:42:18 (permalink)
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    That's for the tip MCT, will consider this for my 1MZ.
    #6

    MCT_MR2
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 20:54:48 (permalink)
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    no worries. And another thing is when you run the electric solenoid models, when you key on, they dump the oil in, so you start with instant oil pressure, which will help engine life in the long run.

    '88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

    224.6KW @ 20PSI

    more to come......
    #7
    Knightrous
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/19 21:52:13 (permalink)
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    I'll probably wire the oil valve up with the fuel pump since it would follow the pattern of usage.
    I was just going to look at the manual valve, but I'd forget to turn it on / off.
    #8
    Tree
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 02:29:21 (permalink)
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    Shmaozaow thanks for the replies everyone! I guess I wasn't overreacting then but wonder why it took me this long to find out about this stuff considering how oil is the life blood. I'm gonna have a look at all your suggestions and go for cheapest + easiest (as opposed to hardest and more expensive) without cutting corners but so far accusump + modded sump/baffle is optimal. Also having that electric solenoid is a great idea MCT since engine wears most during start up which was the real reason you put that electric oil pump on if I remember.
    post edited by Tree - 2013/04/20 13:39:00
    #9
    B24
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 12:39:55 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    If you are taking the car to the track, don't worry about engine wear.
    Mine doesn't have any baffles or the likes and it's working fine but will consider something when corner speeds increase. The electronic unit looks like 'the way to go'. The Gen 3 seems to have some oil surge management so you engine will have the same or better. It will be enough for what you plan on doing.
    There are cars running around doing 1.08's at Wakefield all day(1.38 at Winton) with no mods to their sump with no problems. When you get down to these times, you could look at something.  If anything, just add some more oil when at the track, then drain that added component out when you go home.
     
    #10
    Tree
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 13:10:52 (permalink)
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    Oil surge management sounds reassuring :)
    Yeh I don't think Iain or Adrian run extra sump setup and they do low 1:13s. Even with said handling mods I don't think the car is even capable of said times lol but I still think it's cheap insurance for those with extra pocket money hehe. I'm thinking sometime in the near future (MTC :P) but only once I get my Koni's
    At least it's a functional mod instead of a body kit hahahah jksssss (to each their own)
    post edited by Tree - 2013/04/20 13:14:39
    #11
    Adrian
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 13:31:29 (permalink)
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    Yo Tree. I wouldn't bother with an accumulator or any of that. The only time you'd need that was if you had a kick ass suspension setup, aero and full slicks. If you really wanted to do something a baffled sump should be more than good enough. If you wanted to check first, get an oil pressure gauge and if you if you start sucking in air, the pressure should drop (I think... just guessing).
    #12
    Tree
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 13:38:03 (permalink)
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    Nek minute engine blows LOL jks
    The problem with oil press gauge is that by the time you see the needle drop it's already too late. But still useful for choose optimal oil weight.
    Also if we overfill the oil wouldn't that put stress on the crank thus robbing power and cause some frothing?
    #13
    Gatesys SW20
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 22:38:06 (permalink)
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    An extra 100mml of oil will basicaly sit in the sump,
    Get a pressure gauge to see if the pressure is too much with extra oil

    But with all that added weight of electric oil pump etc
    I don't see your times changing,
    I doubt you or anyone will be cornering hard enough to suck enough air in to blow an engine
    Sure go nuts if you want
    But at the end of the day it's a 6000$ car that sees a few track days a year.

    Put your money somewhere else, like camber adjustable tops
    Or a larger front sway bar or a new set of rubber
    Because come the next year you will most likely need them :p or a sandwich plate oil cooler to keep temps down a bit

    Each to there own in the end
    #14
    Gatesys SW20
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    Re: Dry Sump? 2013/04/20 22:39:25 (permalink)
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    Also isn't that what an oil catch can is for?
    #15
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