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Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst

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Zediah
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2012/06/12 13:14:45 (permalink)
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Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst

I first warn that this will be a "What suspension should I buy?" thread - but I assure you that I have read through every thread present in the suspension forum looking for an answer but have been unable to come up with a definitive one regarding late model SW20's.
 
I have a 1997 SW20 Bathurst, I'm not worrying so much about trying to make it go faster - I should just buy a turbo for that - but instead I'd like to have it handle better and the best place to start would be to replace the 15 year old suspension. I'm unsure which way I wish to go as the car is a daily driver so it still needs to be relatively comfortable, but I do enjoy taking her to the track when I get the chance so I would like it to perform well there also.
 
From what I've been reading, the one of the best combinations to keep it comfortable while improving the feel is to go with the Koni inserts and Eibach Pro Kit - but to install these requires that my suspension be the "Gland nut" type. As mentioned in another thread, I attempted to move the plastic part of the shocks down to find the nut, however they did not move and this indicates that it is the sealed strut type (i.e. no Gland nut)? It was mentioned that it was mostly the older SW20's that had this type, as mines 1997 I doubt it will have them  and probably not viable to get the inserts...
 
In regards the coilovers - reading about them indicates that they don't last all that long, the ride can be a bit rough and while they are "fully adjustable" - after adjusting them, all the suspension settings will be wrong for the new adjustment and be quite inefficient! I'm not sure these are what I'm after...
 
What else is there to get for a late model SW20?
 
Appreciate any input, thanks :)
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    Reddtarga
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/12 16:05:35 (permalink)
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    Before looking at anything aftermarket, the first thing would be to make sure all the stock suspension parts are in top condition, and go on from there. (ball joints, tie rod ends, suspension bushes, etc)

    Then maybe maybe start with something like a 20mm Whiteline adjustable front ARB with bracket reo plates.  Don't change the rear one. Will give sharper turn in.
    Many people like the Koni/Pro-Kit combo for handling, but Eibach Pro-Kits will ride harder than your stock springs, and give about the same ride height.
    I run Koni adjustable inserts in the early model gland nut type struts with the later model stock springs, and a 20mm front bar. Handles great while still keeping a good ride for a dd.
     
    If you don't want to go for coilovers, you could get Koni inserts fitted to your sealed struts, but you would need special inserts that fasten with a bolt thru the bottom. A PITA to do so it would cost more than getting inserts put in gland nut type.
    Or may be easier pick up a set of the early gland nut struts and use them on your car, they will fit ok.
     

    post edited by Reddtarga - 2012/06/12 16:10:35

    1990 ADM NA
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    MANDALAY
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/12 19:28:43 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Get a new set of Bilstens and TRD springs and be done with it.
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    MaXim
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/12 22:26:02 (permalink)
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    Interestingly I've checked the struts on my 97 and they are not sealed. They appear to have a gland nut at the end of the cartridge as shown above. My plan is to go Koni yellow insert + TRD springs.
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    nissky
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 06:17:06 (permalink)
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    Confirm what kinds of struts you have first.
    Hard to tell by the year model as previous owner might have changed them already.
    As in the pic above, just slide the rubber boot up and have a look, with the car jacked up. I had sealed rears and unsealed fronts.
    A suspension place can modify the sealed ones and a nut to them to accept shock inserts.
    New shocks would be the first thing I would install to freshen the suspension, using your stock springs.

    If course with coilovers, if you adjust them then you need to get the alignment redone

    Carless again :(
    #5
    Zediah
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 09:32:37 (permalink)
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    I didn't have a good look at what kind the struts are, I'll be sure to find some time this weekend to do so and confirm.
     
    Reddtarga - I noticed on twos'r'us they have a ball join/tie rod combo set on sale, would they be a good place to start? () Although they don't appear to have suspension brushes that I can see...would be good to have everything in one order to save on shipping
     
    Would it cost much to have a suspension place modify the sealed ones?
     
    What exactly would the Bilsteins be replacing? The entire strut/shocks? I have some knowledge of suspension but there's still quite a large gap sorry...
     
    TRD springs are mentioned twice already, in most other threads though people plug the Ebachi Pro Kit springs - from what I remember reading, the TRD would ride a bit harder don't they...?
     
    Thanks everyone for the input! Really appreciated
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    MRTurbo
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 10:15:07 (permalink)
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    Yep TRD are a little lower and stiffer than the Eibach Pro Kit.
    I use the Pro Kit + Koni shocks and they're great all rounders.

    1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
    2001 Honda CBR600F4i

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    MR2QIK
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 11:46:52 (permalink)
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    IMHO, with the improved quality & fiercely competitive coilover market, I'd look at coilovers rather than springs/struts (not so frowned upon in NSW by the Popo). Even in the lower end of town, BC coilovers have had very good reviews amongst many crowds. At potentially a smidgen less than $1000, very hard to look past. In combination with good tyres, front adjustable sways bars (with reo plates), front tension rods, good condition bushes etc & a well set alignment, I think the results would be exhilerating. The 5/8 spring rates would be ideal too IMO (potentially not as soft as Tein SS, but not nearly as harsh as the rest).

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    Reddtarga
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 11:50:39 (permalink)
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    Zediah 

    Reddtarga - I noticed on twos'r'us they have a ball join/tie rod combo set on sale, would they be a good place to start? () Although they don't appear to have suspension brushes that I can see...would be good to have everything in one order to save on shipping

    Would it cost much to have a suspension place modify the sealed ones?

    What exactly would the Bilsteins be replacing? The entire strut/shocks? I have some knowledge of suspension but there's still quite a large gap sorry...

      
    Twos'rus give good service. I got Koni inserts, (gland nut type) tie front rod ends, ball joints, and poly suspension bushes from them, and highly recommend them.
    But it pays to shop around. Also try Gorilla, Road and Track, and Lithia Toyota Parts.
     
    Suspension bushes:
    Many people replace the stock rubber suspension bushes with poly.
    Pro's: tighter suspension feel.
    Cons: they need lubrication or can become noisy. Also tend to transmit more vibration.
     
    Koni, Bilstein:
    I have heard the saying "Bilsteins for the track, and Koni's for the street," but of course you can stiffen the Koni's up for a track day anyway.
    I have tried both on my car, and I found that the stock struts with  Koni adjustable inserts on the softest setting, ride noticably softer than the stock sealed Bilstein strut/shock combo.
     
    I'm not sure about Bilstein inserts, but you can buy a new stock sealed strut shock combo.
     



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    MaXim
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 12:02:27 (permalink)
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    MR2QIK

    IMHO, with the improved quality & fiercely competitive coilover market, I'd look at coilovers rather than springs/struts (not so frowned upon in NSW by the Popo). Even in the lower end of town, BC coilovers have had very good reviews amongst many crowds. At potentially a smidgen less than $1000, very hard to look past. In combination with good tyres, front adjustable sways bars (with reo plates), front tension rods, good condition bushes etc & a well set alignment, I think the results would be exhilerating. The 5/8 spring rates would be ideal too IMO (potentially not as soft as Tein SS, but not nearly as harsh as the rest).

    Now that you mention it, it's hard to look past the price for these, and they can be acquired locally.
     
    One other thing to note is that there are no linear springs available for the MR2, while there are plenty of progressive coilover options available.
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    MRTurbo
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 12:14:49 (permalink)
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    yeah I find the progressive Eibach rears a bit 'floaty' at times over crests and bumps in the hills, would prefer linear. Are the TRDs progressive rear too?
     

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    MaXim
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 12:44:20 (permalink)
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    They're all progressive, even TRD.
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    MRTurbo
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 12:49:05 (permalink)
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    ^Apparently you can get Industrial Springs on Pt Road to make up custom springs to suit.

    1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
    2001 Honda CBR600F4i

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    nissky
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 12:53:05 (permalink)
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    MR2QIK

    IMHO, with the improved quality & fiercely competitive coilover market, I'd look at coilovers rather than springs/struts (not so frowned upon in NSW by the Popo). Even in the lower end of town, BC coilovers have had very good reviews amongst many crowds. At potentially a smidgen less than $1000, very hard to look past. In combination with good tyres, front adjustable sways bars (with reo plates), front tension rods, good condition bushes etc & a well set alignment, I think the results would be exhilerating. The 5/8 spring rates would be ideal too IMO (potentially not as soft as Tein SS, but not nearly as harsh as the rest).

    I agree, i went with (soft 4/6) coilovers.
    Replaces the upper mounts too, so something less you need to worry about.
    But I do not believe they will last as long as bilstein struts for example.

    Carless again :(
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    MR2QIK
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    Re:Suspension Upgrade to Late Model (1997) Bathurst 2012/06/13 13:49:33 (permalink)
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    I agree re the longevity, however I'm sure they'll still last plenty long enough. Will probably kill the stock motor or wear the transmission & have plenty of "garage detention time" before BC's require replacement....haha

    MR2QIK - "The Little Car That Could"



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