Rizo
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Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
Hey guys, don't know how many of you have been following the song and dance surrounding my car but I have decided rather than to throw more money at this engine for no guaranteed gain to either rebuild it or do a Gen 3 swap.
I don't fully understand the differences between these engines but my thoughts are that if I completely rebuild my Gen 2 with forged internals and all the fun stuff it has to be better and safer and cheaper than going down the Gen 3 road and maybe ( knowing my luck most likely) getting a dud halfcut.
It's about $6000 for a gen 3 swap and I know the gearbox is better and no more AFM to deal with but that's assuming there is nothing wrong with the halfcut engine. What I want to ask is what kind of Gen 2 can be built for this kind of money and is it worth my effort or should I just go Gen 3?
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MRTurbo
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 17:13:13
(permalink)
If you plan to leave it stock(ish) go Gen3:
- MAP sensor instead of AFM
- Bosch D-Jetronic (Gen III) vs. L-Jetronic (relatively primitive) engine management
- CT20b turbo replaces CT26
- Boost raised from 10psi to 13psi
- Fuel cut raised from ~12 psi to ~18 psi
- Different ECU
- 4 wire O2 sensor
- Shim under bucket valve shims
- slightly more aggressive cams
- Revised internals (pistons, con-rods etc.)
- Revised cylinder head cooling passages/water jackets
- Revised intake manifold (8 'independent long ports' reduced to 4)
- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added. i.e. after turbo and intercooler.
- Revised gearbox with close ratio gearing
- lower compression ratio
- stainless steel head gasket
- factory 540cc injectors replace 430cc injectors
- revised fuel rail with bigger bore and relocated pressure regulator
- TVIS eliminated
- EGR eliminated
- LSD in 80% of them
- throttle body increased from 55mm to 60mm
- inlet valve lift increased from 8.2 to 8.7
- intake manifold inlet air temperature sensor added
- Less restrictive exhaust elbow
- Aluminum oil pan
- more rigid alloy sump and additional oil baffles
- Factory Catch can
- Better Oil Cooler and relocated oil filter (bottom)
- No. 1 compression ring described as 'stainless steel' instead of just 'steel'. Oil ring is described as 'stainless steel' instead of 'a combination of steel and stainless steel'.
Or if you're planning for future 'big power'/turbo etc then re-build your Gen2 that you currently have with forged stuff.
1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa 2001 Honda CBR600F4i 
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Rizo
MR2 Aficionado
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 18:47:02
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Not really chasing big power, just the ever elusive " Toyota reliability" . I would never be going for more than 300hp because for me anything more for a street car is a bit wild. I guess what I am asking is wether it's possible to rebuild a gen 2 and be able to actually drive the car daily without it ****ting itself every other day ( my current mr2 experience)
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just_ace
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 18:56:49
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rebuild by a professional is always best if you can afford it imho.
even if you get 3rd gen, 2nd hand you can never be sure how reliable it's going to be.
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purple5ive
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 19:10:46
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or just buy the gen 2 rebuilt engine thats for sale on the forums now by sw20_3sgte and do a freshen up before install.
buying a second hand engine wethere gen 2 or gen 3 is always a gamble..
you can also rebuild your gen 2 and while your at it run a PFC and (run bigger turbo along with bigger injectors and fuel pump if you want more power)
cheers
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Rizo
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 19:28:20
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Just a metter of finding out how much it would cost in labour to do it also have to hit up Gorilla and see if they still sell those rebuild kits. Any of you guys done a rebuild before?
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Rizo
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 19:30:39
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Here's a better question. Can you guys recommend someone who knows whats going on with these engines to rebuild my Gen 2.
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MRTurbo
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 19:39:25
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Well for a daily I wouldn't be bothering with after market turbos and ECU etc if you want "Toyota reliability". Keep it relatively stock and maintained.
1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa 2001 Honda CBR600F4i
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Rizo
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 20:07:27
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Might sound a bit pessimistic but does 3sgte reliability exist? Only reason I ask is that I never see mr2s on the road and the general feeling on here is that everyone has had their fair share of trouble with the 3sgte
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MANDALAY
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 20:40:53
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The Turbo wasnt Aussie delivered , plus there wasnt that many sold.
So chances of seeing on is rare.
You are buying a second hand engine thats been chopped out of a car , no history and probably sat around for several years.
What condition do you think the condition of the engine will be ?
If your lucky you get an ok engine. But regardless certain items will need to be changed.
Rebuild an engine and keep it stock and it will last for years and years..
Then there is the condition of your car and all the suspension etc
Maintenance is no more than any other turbo.
There is absolutely nothing special in the engine that any competent builder will do easily. Push a price and you will be getting what you paid for
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MANDALAY
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 20:43:25
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question is how much do you have to spend , that will dictate what you will get
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Rizo
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 20:51:35
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I'm not going to do things by halves. It will be done properly. Just a matter of finding someone who can do it right. That's the problem I have, I'm not going to hand over more of my money to a retard with a spanner to piss it up against a wall. Been down that road. I want to deal with professionals.
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just_ace
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 21:03:59
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wtfauto, they're in WA but i know he's built engines before for eastern states customers.
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Rizo
MR2 Aficionado
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 21:07:19
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I have heard about wtfauto. That dude builds some awesome engines.
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Rizo
MR2 Aficionado
- Total Posts : 149
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Re:Rebuild a Gen 2 or swap to Gen 3?
2012/05/13 21:08:54
(permalink)
Oh crap, somebody stop me. I'm looking at the 2gr conversion and dribbling slightly. I wonder if anyone in NSW has dne this conversion. I know road and track did one.
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