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TK
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2011/08/22 17:42:06 (permalink)
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ABS conversion

Does anybody know if it is possible to convert a '91 SW20 to ABS?
 
Any idea of the $$ involved?
 
Cheers,
#1
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    kameleon
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/08/22 20:40:00 (permalink)
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    anythings possible. Very expensive for the hubs and carriers alone. The early single channel abs is terrible, dont bother!
    #2
    MRTurbo
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/08/23 11:55:57 (permalink)
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    +1 to early ABS being absolute ****!
    I wouldn't even spend a dollar doing the conversion.

    1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
    2001 Honda CBR600F4i

    #3

    Whore of Babylon
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/08/23 12:10:07 (permalink)
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    just upgrade brakes imo
    #4
    Reddtarga
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/08/23 15:00:38 (permalink)
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    I have abs on my 90 model but I don't think I'd really miss it if I didn't have it.
    However modern abs systems are supposed to be much better than what I have on my car.
     
    For a 91 non-abs mr2, buying the best tyres might be a much better investment anyway, assuming the rest of the system is in good condition. 
     
    post edited by Reddtarga - 2011/08/23 15:24:24

    1990 ADM NA
     
     
     
     
     
     
    #5
    TRD2000
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 10:05:00 (permalink)
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    got a '90 and have used it with and without ABS for seeral years each... when i bought it the system was disabled, and i got it going again...
     
    the only time it's useful is braking hard in the wet on bends.
     
    the brake feel is infinately better without it, so in every other situation no ABS is better. Don't bother.

    1990 JDM SW20 GT http://www.mr2australia.com/MR2play/tm.aspx?&m=30305&high=trd2000&mpage=2
    2000 Honda VTR250
    2006 CBR 600RR telephonica limited edition
    2012 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
    #6

    Dudeman
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 10:12:57 (permalink)
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    TRD2000

    the only time it's useful is braking hard in the wet on bends.


     
    Thats the time when it may save your skin. Not that anyone would 'want' to brake at that point but if you had to ancient abs could be a lifesaver.


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    #7
    kameleon
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 10:35:10 (permalink)
    -1 (1)
    actually on the limit with stiff suspension it will without warning increase your braking distance!!!!! Its not safe at all, i have had a few hairy moments on the limit and this has happened....
    #8
    MRTurbo
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 10:42:11 (permalink)
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    ^+1!!!

    1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
    2001 Honda CBR600F4i

    #9
    Dudeman
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 10:50:33 (permalink)
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    Yeah but if you had to brake hard in a wet corner it could stop a lockup and the back wanting to overtake the front.
     
    I have abs in my 90 turbo, yes, its a bit odd. I think there must be something wrong with the sensors.

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    #10
    TRD2000
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 12:26:26 (permalink)
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    surely it's not 1 channel... how would one channel abs even work???
    I figures it would be 3 channel... like most early abs systems where it reads both front wheels and has a common channel for the rears which it takes an average of or something... basically just watched for individual lock ups on the front and big lock ups on the back... which is fine for a front engined car. later models went 4 channels with independant rear channels to better watch for individual lock ups on the rear.
     
    it's been 20 years since i read about te differences so im a little hazy but i remember 3 channel grouped the rears and 4 channel seperated them.... 1 channel wouldn't work cause it would need at least two to get a wheel speed differential wouldn't it?
     
    I leave mine connected these days cause of that, brake hard on a corner, just in case factor... but hands down for fast driving in the dry, or on a track where you can predict your corners and not have an idiot pull out in front... no abs is the winner.

    1990 JDM SW20 GT http://www.mr2australia.com/MR2play/tm.aspx?&m=30305&high=trd2000&mpage=2
    2000 Honda VTR250
    2006 CBR 600RR telephonica limited edition
    2012 Aprilia RSV4 Factory
    #11
    kameleon
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 18:06:41 (permalink)
    -1 (1)
    its naive to say its great when its well documented that it has caused lots of accidents and hairy moments when your already emergency or late breaking.

    Although it is called single channel that is more jargon then reality in terms of how it uses its sensors. Its a very dumb system and a stiff suspension etc agravates this. I had MANY embaressing and scary experiences with this ABS system. I would rather have wood brake pads and water for brake fluid than early ABS!!!

    Safety is important, this system is not SAFE!!!!

    There is nothing wrong with the later system but it is not perfect either. I would call it safe though.
    #12
    Dudeman
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 18:26:34 (permalink)
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    kameleon

    its naive to say its great when its well documented that it has caused lots of accidents and hairy moments when your already emergency or late breaking. 


     
    Can you point me in the direction of this documentation? I have a 90 with abs, i'd like to read more about it.
     
     


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    #13
    cogs
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/05 22:45:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    +3 (3)
    It's important to point out that the early ABS was designed to work with stock suspension, 14" rims and higher profile tyres.  Tuning an ABS system critically involves these factors and major changes to them WILL degrade its performance if not adjusted to suit.  I think I can safely say that almost every early SW20 on the road today has bigger rims, lower profile tyres and/or modified suspension.  This renders any subjective opinions of the effectiveness of the ABS void.
     
    Also, all ABS systems have independent sensing and processing of the speed of all four wheels, regardless of the configuration.  The number of channels refers to how many mechanical systems the unit has to reduce braking pressure.  Three channel ABS releases both rear brakes simultaneously if either locks, due to only having one hydraulic circuit split to both calipers, but still controls the two front wheels independently.  Four channel can release the rear brakes independently of each other, resulting in a minute improvement in braking performance.
     
    The early SW20 ABS is 3 channel, but having a higher rear braking bias than most other cars means that it will gain more benefit from a 4 channel system than front engined cars.
     
    Most opinions of ABS systems are based on the system having activated and given the driver the feeling that the car is not stopping as well as it could.  In most cases though, the conditions were abnormal and in the absence of ABS one or more wheels would have locked resulting in a potentially more dangerous situation.  Proving one way or the other is practically impossible, it's very hard to assert with any authority that in a hairy situation ABS was counter-productive, unless it's done under controlled conditions repeatedly.  Panic braking on the roads are hardly controlled conditions with unbiased observers!
     
     

    1990 SW20 GT
    #14
    Dudeman
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    Re:ABS conversion 2011/09/06 02:16:20 (permalink)
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    cogs

    Most opinions of ABS systems are based on the system having activated and given the driver the feeling that the car is not stopping as well as it could.  In most cases though, the conditions were abnormal and in the absence of ABS one or more wheels would have locked resulting in a potentially more dangerous situation.
     Proving one way or the other is practically impossible, it's very hard to assert with any authority that in a hairy situation ABS was counter-productive, unless it's done under controlled conditions repeatedly.  
     
    Panic braking on the roads are hardly controlled conditions with unbiased observers!



     
    It was explained to me that:
     
    Activating ABS will mean that the car will take longer to stop.
     
    ABS 'should' (other factors affect this as cogs explained) only activate when the driver would have caused the wheel to skid.
     
    Sorry if i'm telling people how to suck eggs here but - the idea of ABS is to keep the wheel rolling so you can do your best to steer away from the hazard, if you are skidding you have pretty well much lost control and inertia is in charge. If you have thumped the pedal hard enough to activate ABS (all things being equal as previous post) you would have begun to skid.
     
    But my 90 GT, well i think theres a fault with it, its fine at any speed over 10kph, anything under that and ABS activates. Its got to be a faulty something...
     
    From experience, I can credit ABS on a motorbike with keeping me out from six foot under for the time being.
    Wet road, 100kph, car turns right out in front of me... Panic braking, pant sharting...
    I was able to just manouvre around the hazard, without ABS I would have skidded and probably ended up under the oncoming car.
     
    So I then bought an Mr2 after a good search and got rid of the bike.

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    #15
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