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E85 Fuel to Caltex

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-Totenkopf-
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:26 AM (permalink)
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Funny, also heard of fuel injectors getting cactus by e85 in australia, even ID2000's, might be the oxygenating agents as ID say not to use with oxygenated fuels.
 
Beware (errgg, me too).
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MRTurbo
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:40 AM (permalink)
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Why does it mention E85 on their website if its no good? lol 
Forget this bio green crap what happened to good 'ol Toluene?? 
 
percentage of toluene mixed with 98RON:

10% - 102 octane
20% - 110 octane
30% - 115 octane
40% - 120+ octane
post edited by MRTurbo - Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:57 AM

1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
2001 Honda CBR600F4i

#47
zmit
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:21 AM (permalink)
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well the tank is almost empty now. at about 400km... so realistically.. no noticeable difference to fuel economy

1992 SW20 GT
... and loving it...
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-Totenkopf-
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:54 AM (permalink)
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Of course not, your still running the standard tune.. therefore, its injecting approximately the same fuel.  it may just be running slightly leaner then standard (which is stupid rich anyway)
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:52 PM (permalink)
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so e85 is fine to run with standard gear, just use bigger injectors so you can pump twice as much in.
i might try it in the 206 first

Kôsoku bosu
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purple5ive
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:37 PM (permalink)
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/\ standard = unmodified
adding bigger injectors to a standard car will only result in one thing
did you even read the thread properly???
even worse james just posted somethign directly relevant to what you just said before you said it.
 
in your car it a total waste in its current state cause its not tuned for this fuel,  
 
for a stock standard car the tune is the same, as James mentioned earlier so same amount of fuel is going in, except the fuel going in this time burns way way better than the older stuff that was going in (98 ron, optimax, ultimate, synnergex, vortex etc), so there's less wastage, more energy is produced by burning all the fuel because there less knock encountered so ecu doesn't dump fuel in to the engine to compensate so the engine actually runs like it was running in Japan where they have the 100ron fuel which is what these cars are tuned for..
to make it simpler the cars will behave like a car running on a power fc with a mild tune ---  why????  because the stock ecu was tuned for 100 ron which we dont get here
when the pfc is tuned here its tuned for 98 or whatever fuel you want to use so the tune is optimised for the fuel your using
with the stock ecu it cannot be tuned so the fuel RON has to be adjusted to get the best and this is done by adding the 80/20 mix as mu man suggested  
 
the only downside im seeing is the seals etc swelling and ruining the pump and injectors
although i wonder if just using the 80/20 mix will result in damage to seals

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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Friday, May 06, 2011 0:01 PM (permalink)
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i hadnt refreshed my post before totenkopf posted, i just saw muman mocking me because i dared ask a question about oxygenating agents.

Kôsoku bosu
#52
MuMan
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Friday, May 06, 2011 5:16 AM (permalink)
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surok: I wasn't mocking you, it's just that digging up a post from mr2oc on a similar but unrelated matter, and posting it without any reason, led me to think you were making some kind of statement, rather than asking a question? anyhow, if I made you feel that way..I do apologise.
 
purple5ive: You summed that up pretty darn well..
 
On the rubber parts: I've seen pumps & hoses affected by Ethanol, mostly from E10 where the stock pump is still used, and mostly done a lot of K's. I experienced it personally in an r33 where I ran E10(95 then) for 18 months. So there's something going on there, over time, and they come out will swollen seals that eventually stop the pump from running. On the other hand, I suppose any pump over 10 years old is rather tired anyway, and needs replacing with an ethanol compatible pump..migh as well be with a smile.
 
The rubber lines are easy enough to fix.
 As for injectors, never seen or experienced any issues, tho I have heard some reports (like tots) of inj seals swelling or inj failing, and some reports from o/s about deposits building up.
The deposits I think, are from the the Ethanol (and this is 100%) breaking down from age, and forming varnish/gum deposits, which it will do after long storage. Plus guys in the northern states & Canada tend to store cars over the winter, so might be something in there. Usually  a couple of tankfulls of 98 cleans things up, unless it's let go badly.
AS for the inj seals, most of those are now neoprene anyway, so I assume its the seals themselves.
Injectors..no idea, havent seen any, but all I can think of is if they are cad plated, maybe its pitting. It will affect cad plated items, Ive seen it on pump bodies, and where cad plated tanks are involved.
Hope this helps..just trying to give a complete view, not just the up side..although that is the best mod for less than 20 bucks your ever going to find.
 
 
post edited by MuMan - Friday, May 06, 2011 5:22 AM

"Have you ever noticed when things get set in motion, the heavy end wants to go first."


#53
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Friday, May 06, 2011 5:53 AM (permalink)
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bear in mind this is also only usefull for people who are still running a stock ecu
anyone with a power fc or similar aftermarket ecu can get similar results of the 80/20 mix by tuning for the 98ron fuel we have available here locally
obviously if the aftermarket mob want to go fully e85 then the pfc or whatever can be tuned for that and by the looks of things will have to change pump, seals, etc to be E85 compatible as well.
 
if only we had solid proof that the E85 wont swell selas etc this would be the best upgrade you can do to ANY imported car that was made to run on 100ron fuel.
 
i think iil stick to tuning my pfc on 98ron cause im not so keen on stuffing around with fuel components.

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#54
MuMan
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:30 AM (permalink)
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A bit more info: 
Got my hands on a '91 rev1 donor car over the weekend. The car is going up for sale at  Southport next week if anyone is interested, at around 12.5k. The car is bone stock apart from a pod filter of some sort and an ebay'ish looking IC.
After a set of plugs it drove pretty well like you'd expect, responsive down low, good mid range, not a lot up top.
After switching to 80/20 the difference was...well, almost astounding. The car was completely different to drive, better bottom end, smoother power (even at low revs) and felt like it had a torque boost. Into boost the ceramic turbo spooled like crazy, and trying to be careful with it was very hard. I tried to set the MBC reasonably conservatively at <14psi but ended up at 12, although it was overshooting to 13, and occasionally 14, so I didn't mess with it. I think the stock exhaust would be struggling a bit.
All indications are it's still running stupidly rich at those boost levels. I'd like to see it on a set of rollers and  see what the AFR's are like.
 
 
 
 
post edited by MuMan - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:37 AM

"Have you ever noticed when things get set in motion, the heavy end wants to go first."


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MRTurbo
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:28 AM (permalink)
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Nice work! really looking forward to trying it on mine soon - she should fly with a 3" DP and this stuff in the tank soon 
Still gotta sort out the rich running on mine though, tired of the really bad economy, but still got that MAP ECU2 on the cards. 

1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
2001 Honda CBR600F4i

#56
purple5ive
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:14 PM (permalink)
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why do you think its running so rich even after using the 80/20 mix i thought it would have leaned it out a bit more which is where the extra power is coming from...
 
did you try an ECU reset to make sure it back to factory settings and clearing errors etc

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#57
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:00 AM (permalink)
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Yes, your right. The problem with the gen2 ECU, that you don't get with the gen3, is the two upper rows of the high boost map (14 & 16 psi) are programmed with values to max the injectors out. These normally are disabled by factory fuel cut (not locked).
So when you boost (near or) above 14 psi you end up 100% duty cycle.
The 80/20 makes a very obvious difference up to that point, but then drops efficiency, because it's just too rich to have the same leaning effect.
You could increase the the mix ratio on the stock injectors to reduce that somewhat, but then you'd need to be careful what is happening below that boost level, also you'd be cutting your max power potential due to the 440's.
Best solution would be a MAP ECU2 or similar controller to change those values in line with the boost curve vs AFR ratio..or simply live with it as a form of over boost protection. On a ct26 it's not really that much of an issue, but say a ct20b, it may limit top end somewhat. With a MHG and good exhaust, i don't see why you couldn't boost to 17 or 18 psi safely on 80/20.
 
Anyway, you see the problem..
Yes, did a reset to clear anything in the ECU.
 
post edited by MuMan - Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:17 AM

"Have you ever noticed when things get set in motion, the heavy end wants to go first."


#58
MRTurbo
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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:37 AM (permalink)
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So for AFR tuning under WOT/boost the MAP ECU2 would be definitely worth it on the gen 2 ECU than for the Gen 3 because the gen 2 just pours in tons of fuel basically at those levels? thats just killing power/economy.
I'm not really interested in top end as the CT26 hasn't got any but would like to lighten it up as its just a waste of fuel.

1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
2001 Honda CBR600F4i

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Re:E85 Fuel to Caltex Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:54 AM (permalink)
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Absolutely right. The ECU2 (but not the only one) on the gen2 ECU allows you to not only overcome the top row issue, but trim AFR's across the board in open loop mode for optimum power or economy. Even in closed loop mode, you can make corrections.
Very nice unit for the money..ask cogs about his gen2/ECU2 setup, he's been doing quite a bit of tuning with it.
The ct26 will boost well enough..trust me, I've hit 23 psi at one time, but looses efficiency rapidly around 15 or 16 psi. More of a quick spooling, mid range torque turbo than anything else.
 
Just on that fuel economy issue your having, check (replace) the ECU temp sensor & O2 sensor, good chance that's where the problem is..worth doing it anyway if they are original..save you a few bucks and you'll get more out of the 80/20 if you decide to go that way.
 

"Have you ever noticed when things get set in motion, the heavy end wants to go first."


#60
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