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Reddtarga
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RE: Checkin 2012/04/25 15:03:00 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info.

1990 ADM NA
 
 
 
 
 
 
nissky
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RE: Checkin 2012/04/26 09:27:34 (permalink)
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Mandalay...
When are you going to start selling a bolt on supercharger kit for NA mr2s :D

Carless again :(
MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/04/26 09:35:15 (permalink)
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Dont think that will happen.
 
But if anyone ever wants a bracket made no worries ill point them to the right direction

MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/04/26 21:34:17 (permalink)
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Few more parts

The other knuckle



Pair of hubs, gee they look good new



And to round up the big parts for the conversion to the E153 a pair of new shifter cables



Waiting on the CRW upgrade to the CV joints and bushings for the cables and lots of nuts and bolts.

In the meantime the spare engine is being mated to the E153 to start working out the intercooler and checking the bracket for alignment.
Crazy wet weather already here but regardless wont be dropping the engine for another 3 months as i still want to drive my car on those few sunny days
MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/01 18:45:22 (permalink)
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So since im upgrading the power the Intercooler set up is also being looked at.

The water pump i have after talking to board members and expert Intercooler builders have all said to get big lines and a bigger pump.
Well the pipes are a no go as im not doing them again but i will change a few things .
Firstly the water pump.
The Bosch pump is going to be replaced with a mother of a pump the Johnson CM90
Its nearly double the size with triple the flow.
Compared to the pump that Rogue sells with their water set up its a Giant !



My IAT's are low being a SC which is great one of the things over a Turbo but i want to get it as close to ambient as possible and to improve recovery
MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/01 18:50:13 (permalink)
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Few more goodies thanks to Josh CRW :) Clevis  for the clutch and the bearings for the shifter cables



MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/01 19:58:59 (permalink)
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Rewinding back 10 pages and you saw the ID1000's .





Well CRW got me the 16 mm rubber gaskets for them with a few to spare. Makes a nice tight fit :)


MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/02 18:48:11 (permalink)
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More parts from CRW . Great kit and complete. Anyone would think im building a 700 Hp engine :)

CV upgrade. Thanks josh.




MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/05 21:47:04 (permalink)
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Well the shop put the E153 on the bench and put a few bolts to bolt up the spare engine.
Sorry for the fuzzy shot. Put the bearing bracket for the axle to make sure it clears the bracket. All ok , the CV is about 15 mm from it.






cogs
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/05 23:18:16 (permalink)
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MANDALAY
My IAT's are low being a SC which is great one of the things over a Turbo but i want to get it as close to ambient as possible and to improve recovery 

You've mentioned your low intake temps a few times as compared to turbos, implying that the Rotrex heats the air less.  In fact the opposite is true, and I'd suspect your low intake temps are testament to the effectiveness of your intercooling system.
 
It is a known physical property of gases that an increase of pressure results in an increase of temperature in the absence of any other energy transfer.  This is known as an adiabatic process and can be approximated with the ideal gas laws.  It doesn't matter how the pressure is raised, if no further heat energy is added the final temperature is the same.
 
The other significant factor affecting the final gas temperature is the compressor efficiency.  Centrifugal compressors by their nature have a rotational speed range where their efficiency peaks, and the highest absolute peak efficiency is achieved in designs where this speed range is narrow.  The Rotrex compressor must provide usable efficiency over a wide range of compressor speeds, dictating that its efficiency island is wide but not terribly high.  Therefore its peak efficiency cannot by its nature match a turbo which can be optimised for the narrow speed range that the wastegate regulates it to.  It should be noted that a centrifugal compressor's pressure ratio is loosely proportional to its shaft speed, regardless of actual flow rate.  For example, on a given engine/turbo configuration, the turbo might be doing 90K RPM at 12 PSI boost and 3000 engine RPM, but at 6500 engine RPM with double the air flow but the same 12PSI, the turbo would only have raised to maybe 105K RPM.
 
So the net temperature rise through the compressor is defined as the product of compressor efficiency and adiabatic thermal effect.  The former is lower in a turbo due to its higher peak efficiency and its ability to operate within that narrow efficiency range, the latter is an unchangeable physical property identical between the Rotrex and turbo.  It therefore makes sense that the Rotrex producing the same boost as an equally well matched turbo will have a higher compressor outlet temperature.

1990 SW20 GT
MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/06 04:33:53 (permalink)
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Very scholar answer with great use of words and theory which frankly sounds impressive.
 
But at the end of the day really i don't care for it much, because your first statement is correct but choose to ignore the latter part of the sentence.
 
"It is a known physical property of gases that an increase of pressure results in an increase of temperature in the absence of any other energy transfer "
 
Great thing about dyno logging and with a great shop is the ability to compare data
 
I couldn't care less that a Turbo , a small one or a bigger one has more power than the Rotrex. I enjoy the lower temps in my IAT's and engine bay ,the predictability and response of my boost relative to my foot like a N/A. It suits me the way i use my car , the Beams engine and the aesthetic installation to my eyes
 
Now back to the post ignoring the fact that you wish to tell me again that the Turbo is better, more efficient , has the ability to have bigger boost etc than the Rotrex which again i don't care, you rely on theory for your argument that  it all results in lower temps and the Rotrex will have higher temps.
 
Well , fantastic thank you for the physics class but in real life that's a load of baloney.
 
The Rotrex's low IAT's are a testament that's its devoid of any other transfer heat being on the cold side of the engine away from any hot exhaust temperatures and NOT connected to the hottest part in the engine bay the exhaust manifold.
 
As far as the intercooler effectiveness for low IAT's well i don't think much for PWR barrel. Its weak compared  to other designs.
 
And if you wish to take the " intercooler effectiveness " out of the equation we ran my car without the water pump running a whole day ( to set up up cooling failure, ECU control ) at ambient temps of 36 degrees , the highest IAT's that were logged were 56 degrees Celsius , ( remember i DON'T have twin 12 inch fans on my engine lid ) now ild like to see a Turbo to be that low with no intercooler, IT WONT.
post edited by MANDALAY - 2012/05/06 04:57:59
MRTurbo
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/06 07:37:14 (permalink)
+1 (1)
cog's post wasn't a personal slight on your setup, MANDALAY, he was merely pointing out the fundamental differences between turbocharging and Rotrex.

1990 SW20 GT 3S-GTE Targa
2001 Honda CBR600F4i

MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/06 09:48:33 (permalink)
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So where is the first hand experience with the Rotrex that supports his claim ?
cogs
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/06 11:08:51 (permalink)
+1 (1)
MRTurbo is right Mandalay, I have the utmost of respect for your setup, your attention to detail, and your desire to do things a bit differently.  My post certainly was NOT a "turbo is better" bashing.
 
The heat transfer from the hot exhaust side of a turbo to intake air is negligible - the air is simply not in there long enough to take on any appreciable quantity of heat energy.  I don't have first hand experience with a Rotrex, but I do have an understanding of fluid dynamics.  So do the people who designed the Rotrex and they will tell you exactly the same thing.
 
My problem with your post Mandalay is that you made a claim, and have done so several times in the past, without ANY evidence to back it up.  Where is your dyno session evidence with a turbo car producing the SAME boost as your Rotrex, showing the compressor outlet temp higher?
 
It wouldn't matter if I was zoologist and had never laid eyes on a turbo in my life, the physics in my post above is well established FACT, and anything that proves it otherwise is falsified.  Again, this is not a Rotrex bashing, just simply pointing out an error in your assertions.  I apologise if it seemed that way.

1990 SW20 GT
MANDALAY
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RE: Checkin 2012/05/06 11:23:15 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Well i wont make that claim ever again as i dont have the logs of other cars in my hand but had the opportunity to see them.
 
Also I will think more carefully in the future to not make comments without proof
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