stuka
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/17 19:55:58
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Rob the pressure drop is not only related to the flow, its also related to the number and type of fittings etc. The smaller diameter results in greater fluid velocity, greater velocity results in greater pressure loss in the system. This will mean your pump will need to work a lot harder to deliver. meaning it will not last as long but it will also heat up excessively and heat the fuel i.e. the fuel is cooling the pump. I put in -8 in my system, right from pump to fuel rail
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robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/17 20:10:22
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Thanks for the info Pat. Yeah, I know that the fittings are just as important as the lines themselves.
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dasic1
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/17 20:56:15
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If you are going to change them, you might as well go straight to -8 and never have to worry about them again. -6 is big enough for the return side
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robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/17 21:29:27
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That's what I was thinking too.
If I do that, then the hard lines from the fuel tank will become the main restriction. Even if I don't change the hard lines, it would still help a lot having -8AN from the hard lines up to the fuel rail. I'm still considering doing the hard lines too, but that would require heaps more work.
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MCT_MR2
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/17 22:27:24
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Sometimes dual -6AN is easier to package than -8AN, paricularily is you a feeding from a single pump in a tight area, and helpful when you have a twin feed rail.
'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258 224.6KW @ 20PSI more to come......
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Knightrous
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/18 08:46:34
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Drop the tank and remove the hardlines, replace with -8AN from pump to rail.
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robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/18 09:29:00
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Knightrous Drop the tank and remove the hardlines, replace with -8AN from pump to rail.
I think I will hey.
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robk
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Jaemus
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/02/27 06:31:20
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Nice work dude. I see some unlucky mechanic got the fun job of removing your fuel tank :)
I'm excited about the more boost part :)
Builder / Former owner of: Australia's first V6 converted SW20Current ride: '92 JDM GT turbo hardtop
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robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/03/05 14:42:35
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*EDIT* The concerns mentioned below turned out to be due to my fuel pressure regulator, not the fuel pump itself. See here for more info. I did some more detailed data logging with my ECU while accelerating at full power, and upon closer inspection of the data logs I noticed that the differential fuel pressure is dropping at high boost. I don't know if there's another explanation, but it seems that my fuel pump could be running out of flow, even with the dash 8 fuel supply line (it did help though). I'm a bit puzzled because I revised my calculations over and over again and I always came to the conclusion that I should only be using about 85-90% of the fuel pump's flow capability! With a full tank of 98 premium fuel I confirmed that the differential fuel pressure is fairly steady at full power. However, with a full tank of E85 the increased power/boost/fuel usage causes the differential fuel pressure to drop a little bit more than I'm comfortable with. It's been totally OK so far, and without the fuel pressure sensor there was no reason for concern because the AFRs have always been OK, but in the future there could be issues due to pump wear, fuel filter clogging, or a number of other factors. So what does this all mean? Well, I may decide to add another matching fuel pump in parallel and wire it up with a separate relay so the ECU can switch it on only when its required (ie. a typical staged setup) so the return line doesn't get overwhelmed. The dash 8 fuel supply line would be sufficient for the flow of both pumps, so the cost of installing the line wouldn't be wasted. One of the concerns that people have with staged parallel fuel pumps is that the engine can still run if one of the pumps dies, so they wouldn't know about it until they go to full power and the AFRs lean out. However, I thought of an idea which I can implement in my ECU to relieve that concern. I can configure the ECU to alternate between the two fuel pumps (say every 10 seconds or so) while only one is needed, so if one of them has a problem I'll know about it before any harm is done. I don't know if anyone else has had a similar idea before, but I was pretty happy when I thought of it.
post edited by robk - 2017/09/19 15:34:07
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Dudeman
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/03/05 20:52:33
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robk I can configure the ECU to alternate between the two fuel pumps (say every 10 seconds or so) while only one is needed, so if one of them has a problem I'll know about it before any harm is done. I don't know if anyone else has had a similar idea before, but I was pretty happy when I thought of it. 
Rather than having them switch every 10 seconds, would it work to have them used alternately on each starting cycle? i.e. it would solely use one pump (unless load requires the second to start) but the primary pump would change each time you hit the ignition. (dunno if that makes sense, i'm just waking up...) The 3 series bmw I have apparently may have three fuel pumps! This I know because one is suspected of beginning to fail. Its got at least two.
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IMR22C
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/03/05 22:25:58
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It seems to me that switching fuel pumps periodically may create more drama than it's worth. It must certainly contribute to the wear of the fuel pumps themselves.
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robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/03/05 22:42:24
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Dudeman: I totally understood what you meant. Yes that's another option. Bill: Yeah 10 seconds is probably too often. Perhaps every 2-10 minutes or so would be more suitable. If I don't alternate them too often, then I was thinking it may help by dividing the normal pump wear between the 2 pumps.
post edited by robk - 2016/03/06 19:14:06
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Jaemus
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/03/05 22:43:32
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Nice idea. I'd also suggest adding some overlap peroid or at least preventing them switching over while at WOT
Builder / Former owner of: Australia's first V6 converted SW20Current ride: '92 JDM GT turbo hardtop
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dasic1
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo
2016/03/06 09:46:49
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Have you considered what might happen to the return line if you add another pump?
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