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Answeredrobk's MR2 Turbo

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cogs
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/24 14:59:40 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by robk

If I had said that I was doing 2x sidemount heat exchangers with a W2A IC in the engine bay, how would you have reacted in that case?


I did a small W2A on mine with a single side mounted heat exchanger of which the pros and cons were discussed here:
http://www.mr2australia.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16525

With consideration for the duty cycle of boost events in normal road driving it works exceptionally well, but would no doubt show its weaknesses at the track.
#61
stuka
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/24 21:06:02 (permalink)
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robk i think you answered your own question in that you indicated a frount mount heat exchanger would be better, thats where Im coming from.

i also thought you might have space/access issues with exchangers each side as you need to get a nice big filter on that turbo. i dont know the sizes of the exchangers so cant really add any further value to the discussion.

heat shed from water is so much more efficient than air, i honestly think the difference between cheap and expensive intercoolers is marginal. the important thing is that the unit is watertight under pressure

cogs - as far as i can see w2a is superior to a2a in all situations except track use. all depends on your intended use
#62
kameleon
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/24 22:51:26 (permalink)
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i am on a phone until we get the net at our new place but will definately give my 2 cents in this thread.

However to keep it short and sweet i agree with stuka you answered your own question front mount is easier and cheaper, why are you against it??

Having things adding yet more heat in the bay and yet more load on the alternator seems silly to me?
#63

MR2QIK
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/24 23:45:10 (permalink)
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To keep things simple & in perspective, 2 H/E's of limited size in the engine bay, will still suffer from the same fundamental problems as an A2A sidemount (even 2 A2A's).....Limited space, airflow & close proximity to the "hot side" of the motor. I honestly can see it being adequate, but not equal to (certainly not better than) a front mount. Another point I didn't mention before is with a front mount H/E, you won't be adding the additional electrical load of 2 fans trying their best to suck cold air in. The radiator fan helps there somewhat & there's really no substitute for the ram air effect.

In summary, my objection is to the logic of the whole thing (trunk core, 2 engine bay H/E's. About having the core directly ontop of the motor, just start your car up & place your hand above the valve cover. Won't take an engineer to figure out why that's not the ideal spot for an IC. Have fun changing spark plugs that way too.....hehe

DVSturbo2, ST205 sure wouldn't be ideal for a fire breathing monster, but they're cheap & will do most people proud. Beats a sidemount A2A anyday. A friend of mine ran one in his Gen3 22psi CT20B for years (still has it I think) without any problems.
#64
cogs
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/25 10:02:51 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by robk
I don't mind if a W2A will be far more expensive, I just want the best overall solution.


I should add that with my W2A installation I wasn't after the best overall solution, but was simply looking for a worthwhile improvement over the stock intercooler to support a mild boost increase.

I felt that keeping the intake tract short for improved throttle response, reduced lag, and a neat, compact install was of more importance than ensuring that last couple of degrees could be kept away from the core. It's only a small core too and is not in the way of changing the spark plugs.

I originally intended to mount the heat exchanger up the front and had removed the front bar and all the undercovers to do this. To be totally honest the reason I didn't do this is laziness! It was MUCH easier to fit it in place of the factory A2A and the core I had was ideally sized for this. I had also heard of successful W2A installs that used the factory A2A intercooler as the heat exchanger.

Back to your objective, "I just want the best overall solution," the answer in my opinion is simple. You have set yourself a power goal that will require optimum performance from the intercooling system so practicality and simplicity should take a lower priority than laying out the system to achieve the BEST effectiveness.

If the power bug bites me hard one day (and it might), my intercooler setup will end up 'for sale' and the new heat exchanger will definitely be front mounted.
#65
stuka
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/25 20:20:42 (permalink)
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quote:
Originally posted by cogs

quote:
Originally posted by robk
I don't mind if a W2A will be far more expensive, I just want the best overall solution.


I should add that with my W2A installation I wasn't after the best overall solution, but was simply looking for a worthwhile improvement over the stock intercooler to support a mild boost increase.

I felt that keeping the intake tract short for improved throttle response, reduced lag, and a neat, compact install was of more importance than ensuring that last couple of degrees could be kept away from the core. It's only a small core too and is not in the way of changing the spark plugs.

I originally intended to mount the heat exchanger up the front and had removed the front bar and all the undercovers to do this. To be totally honest the reason I didn't do this is laziness! It was MUCH easier to fit it in place of the factory A2A and the core I had was ideally sized for this. I had also heard of successful W2A installs that used the factory A2A intercooler as the heat exchanger.

Back to your objective, "I just want the best overall solution," the answer in my opinion is simple. You have set yourself a power goal that will require optimum performance from the intercooling system so practicality and simplicity should take a lower priority than laying out the system to achieve the BEST effectiveness.

If the power bug bites me hard one day (and it might), my intercooler setup will end up 'for sale' and the new heat exchanger will definitely be front mounted.



QED
#66
surok
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/25 20:33:48 (permalink)
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im glad you got the GT30, my pick of the bunch :)
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/28 08:59:58 (permalink)
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Goodluck mate, hope it goes well!
#68
robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/28 14:29:41 (permalink)
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*EDIT*
For future readers of this thread, some of the posts above and below will seem out of context unless you read this...
 
At the time when this post was made (and the posts by other people above and below), I had made the decision to install 2x PWR heat exchangers in the engine bay (one in the normal A2A location on the right, and another on the top left of the engine bay), with a PWR A2W intercooler barrel in the boot. That setup looked really good and unique, and performed OK, so I kept it for about 2 years but eventually I conceded that I should have listened to everyone's advice in the beginning. 
 
Since late 2013, I've had a more typical setup with a front mount heat exchanger and an A2W intercooler core in the engine bay, and it works significantly better than the previous setup!
 
See here for more details on why I eventually decided to make the change:
http://www.mr2australia.c./mr2play/fb.ashx?m=82596
post edited by robk - 2014/10/30 14:03:13
#69
cogs
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/28 18:57:07 (permalink)
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I am absolutely with you on this one Rob, although it most likely does counter your "best solution" objective. As has been concluded a front mounted heat exchanger would get the best flow of cool air, but to what degree is it better than your proposal? The answer is we don't know, and I'm very happy to hear that you intend to explore this and report the results. Honestly I expect to hear that it works exceptionally well.

Too often we dis (or embrace) ideas based on others' opinions without any real evidence to support these opinions, and this impedes progress and often leads to unnecessary cost and wasted time.
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/28 20:49:24 (permalink)
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will look forward to seeing the results for this, it will be far superior to a2a
#71
dasic1
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/28 22:29:19 (permalink)
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If you go boot mount see if you could just cut a hole through the firewall the same size as the cooler piping and weld a section in so there is a couple inches of piping sticking into the boot and engine bay. Then just use joiners from there to finish the piping. (maybe there might be too much engine movement for this to work)
I think that would look a lot nicer than all of the other that i have seen that just cut a large section out.
#72
nuk1ear
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/29 08:20:02 (permalink)
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how much did all that PWR stuff set you back?
#73
MR2QIK
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/29 10:06:26 (permalink)
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Goodluck *supporting pat on the back* hehe
#74
robk
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RE: robk's MR2 Turbo 2010/04/29 11:33:09 (permalink)
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Last night I (finally) got photoshop , and being the obsessive person that I am, I ended up playing around with it from midnight til 4am this morning. I have never used it before in my life, but I have done similar stuff before.
After I installed photoshop, I intended to just have a brief fiddle with it, but I decided to find out what my border front would look like (at least from side-on).

bla bla bla...

I deleted these pics so I never think about my Border front again! lol
#75
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