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Hot!Coolant Leak - HFH solution

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TwoDogs
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2021/10/05 20:10:46 (permalink)
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Coolant Leak - HFH solution

 Hi All,
well I doubt it's 30,000km since I replaced the hose from hell. Some say "good for 100k kms".
To be fair to the HFH, my only evidence is coolant colour on the white outer wrapping, and a puddle on the floor below. 
Vague memory tells me that my he "bypass water pipe" is not like new either.
For now, because the puddle is small, I think I can keep topping it up, and periodically bleeding the air out, until the next engine out, but I'm thinking there should be a long-term solution , ie eliminate the HFH and the bypass pipe completely.
 So, if there is a solution to eliminate the HFH please point it out, otherwise, since it's an international problem, let's create one. 
 The design scope is 2 connections and a routing required to avoid the turbo heat.
Thoughts ? 
 
post edited by TwoDogs - 2021/10/05 20:18:39
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    Falcon
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/07 07:31:13 (permalink)
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    First up, which gen engine are we talking about? Gen 2 is very different to gen 3.
    Also you might like to elaborate on your understanding of just what "HFH" actually achieves. What's its purpose?
    Same story with other two pipes in that area. What's their purpose?
    #2
    TwoDogs
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/07 09:54:22 (permalink)
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    Hi Falcon, 1990 3sgte Gen2.  Do tje later versions have a superior system I can bolt on ?
     The HFH with the white heatshield wrap which has coolant on the outside. The coolant drops down to the bend in the 
    exhaust pipe and onto the ground. If I lie under the car and let it idle until thermostat opens it doesn't seem to do it.
    If I drive the car and bring it back, then later under the car is a puddle. The purpose of the HFH as I understand it is to rout coolant from the oil cooler over to the tree cluster on the hotside of the engine and joins other coolant for the journey to the radiator. The coolant on the wrap is the only evidence I can see. It could be coming off the bypass pipes above the hfh, havven't been able to verify, but could try mirror or the blurry "camera scope" I have.
      I know the bypass pipes bolt into the water pump above the oil cooler, not sure how the leak would run if that was loose. Any thoughts, greatly appreciated.
     
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    Falcon
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/07 15:01:40 (permalink)
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    On gen2 coolant is drawn from inlet side of block close to flywheel end if I remember correctly. It's a long time since I had anything to do with gen2 engine. That coolant flows via a small bore (maybe about 4mm) steel hose, which rusts internally reducing its ability to flow. It then has to negotiate a really poxy 90 degree bend into a flanged joint.
    This minimal flow of coolant is depended on to move through the oil cooler efficiently and then goes into the suction side of water pump. I have no idea how high oil temps must climb because of this messy design.
    Gen 2 engines are a bit renowned for failing bigend bearings. Definitely to do with oil surge on right hand corners but I suspect high oil temps are at least a contributing factor.
    #4
    TwoDogs
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/07 19:05:46 (permalink)
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    Hi Falcon,
    your description is pretty accurate. How does it vary in Gen3/4 and can I convert ? 
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    Falcon
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/07 21:18:44 (permalink)
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    Gen3 the coolant is drawn from the exhaust side of block immediately after the water pump has pushed it into the block. So coolant will be as cool as anywhere in system. It immediately enters the oil cooler via about a 8-10mm rubber hose and then exits into the same sized stainless steel pipe and is drawn along into suction side of water pump. Lots of coolant volume and flow. Efficient oil cooling.
    When cruising at highway speeds, up and down mountains etc, oil temp always remained just 10degrees C above coolant temps. So coolant at say 88. Oil would be 98.
    Continuous laps on track coolant would rise to 98 and oil to 108 and then stabilize at that. Quite within the capabilities of good quality synthetic engine oils.
    Toyota made many changes on the gen 3 engine.
    You probably can't alter where the coolant is drawn from the gen 2 block but it's possible to up the size of the hose and use stainless to prevent rust. You should be able to redo the obstruction of that godawfull flanged joint and 90 degree bend into the oil cooler. 
    Another significant improvement is to shut off either permanently or with a tap the hose to heater circuit.
    This should cause all the suction of the water pump to draw a full flow through the oil cooler circuit.
    Once you sit down and know how it actually works you will be able to improve it's ability.
    I had one turkey do a "loop the hose trick" in that area and achieved the remarkable result of shutting off the bypass pipe so that the poor unfortunate thermostat had no signal that things were getting warm, warmer, hot, hotter, and bloody hot.
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    TwoDogs
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/08 11:33:08 (permalink)
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    Thanks mate,
     So the notorious HFH problem is Gen2's only.  Another "wish I'd known that".   
    I agree that flanged connection is not a great design. A bit like the turbo connections.
    I'm thinking of perhaps cutting the flange out and attaching a flex pipe to rejoin over near the sensors.
    Not sure what/how best to protect from the turbo heat. Do you know what people have tried, successfully ?
    Perhaps unsuccessfully is more important. 
     
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    Falcon
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/08 14:12:25 (permalink)
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    No, gen 3 still has HFH but rarely gives any trouble. Possibly because it carries maybe four or five times more flow and volume keeping it cooler. Seems logical to me. I can't remember exactly what it all looks like in that area but you need the circuit to start from the block via oil cooler and end at suction side of water pump. Some years ago I devised an improvement on a gen2 and "I think" we used gen3 stainless pipes to the water pump and a gen 3 oil cooler and it's base. But it's a long time ago. That car was producing quite good power and on track it certainly fixed the hideous oil temps that he was having prior.
    Where are you located?
    If local you are welcome to come by or you can phone if that suits better.
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    TwoDogs
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    Re: Coolant Leak - HFH solution 2021/10/12 13:24:05 (permalink)
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    I'm just down the road from Brisbane, in Berowra.  I figure any changes I make will need the engine out, so until then I'll keep the coolant topped up and see if we can install an audible alarm for temperature. Not sure where to sense it best. Maybe a pressure sensor would be better ??  Hmm. Certainly don't want to dump the coolant on a track day,
    concentrating on driving.
    #9
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