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Helpful ReplyHot!Engine import assistance

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zmit
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2018/10/10 10:57:28 (permalink)
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Engine import assistance

Hi all,
I'm trying to track down a gen5 3SGTE to swap into my SW20. My gen2 has just died. Clutch adjustment killed the thrust washers (and subsequently the crank, main cap and cradle).

I've found one at Challenger Auto Parts in Seven Hills, NSW but they are refusing to do a compression test on it.
I've found another two in Melbourne that are ONLY being sold with the Caldina drivetrain.
I've found another on TradeMe NZ.
 
None of these are necessarily very useful.
Does anyone have any ideas on where I might be able to source a decent gen5 from?
Would anyone be able to check out the gen5 in Seven Hills?
 
Any other general help would be greatly appreciated!

1992 SW20 GT
... and loving it...
#1
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11 Replies Related Threads

    92 Hard Top
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 11:13:39 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Put a 2gr in it.
    #2
    zmit
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 11:21:36 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Not helpful.

    1992 SW20 GT
    ... and loving it...
    #3

    TonyMR2
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 12:21:30 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Gen5 is big $$$$z
    Don’t expect wreckers to give much detail other than they are selling what they have in front of them - an engine (many may not know if it’s gen4 or gen5). Whatever you buy is a gamble and a bit of a unicorn in Australia. The gen5 packages you maybe seeing in the USA posts don’t translate to Australian $$$$z.
    Personally 2grfe for the money of under $12-15k.
    Don’t take me wrong I am a devoted 5sgte/3sgte, however for a gen5 (weakest rods and pistons of any gen and other downsides) cost vs outcome it’s kinda backwards.
    #4
    zmit
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 12:48:29 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the input.
    There are a few reasons I've chosen to pursue the gen5. 
     
    - I've currently got a forged gen2 and the pistons/rods are in good condition still. I'm thinking about swapping them over.
    - The gen5 intake manifold suits the standard SW20 sidemount intercooler setup.
    - I've got a Link ECU that can run it all, so I'm not bothering with the ECU/immobiliser issues.
    - Bolts straight up to the E153.
     
    Having said all that, I would probably go a gen4 if I could find one of those! The intake manifold isn't a big deal.
    I've got the backing of an engine builder as well, so I'm hoping to get most of it done for under $5k + my time.

    1992 SW20 GT
    ... and loving it...
    #5
    92 Hard Top
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 13:03:46 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    zmit
    Not helpful.


    Not trying to be funny. If the whole motor is stuff. I saw 2gr for $2800.00 give you 200kw standard, with heaps of torgue it a modern motor easy to get part for in the future.



    #6
    matturbo
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 13:14:30 (permalink)
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    I spent ages looking for a Gen3/4 3S ages ago to replace my rooted original Gen2 and had absolutely no luck. Ended up with a built Gen2 though so it's not all bad.
     
    In the end my best bet was that these guys said they could get me one but it would be a huge wait: 
    http://www.brisbanemotorimports.com.au/
     
    Good luck man, I'd be interested to see how you go.
    #7
    TonyMR2
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 13:35:08 (permalink)
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    I have looked at gen4 and gen5. What advantages do you perceive?

    Alternatively - There are block and crank $300 or so dollars (Falcon in Brisbane had some for sale - lots around) and rebuild the engine (machining cost plus parts like piston rings, head gasket, bearings, hose kit, timing belt). Basically a new motor - $5k.

    Interested to what draws you to the gen5
    #8
    zmit
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 14:13:22 (permalink)
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    I'm on a few waitlists for a Caldina engine now.... will see how that goes. I've enquired with Brisbane imports as well.
     
    First of all, this is a street car only, so an engine swap (particularly in SA) is going to be a nightmare.
    My thinking is that gen2 engines are getting very old and worn. Most of them (with the exception of the one Falcon has) are at least 86.5mm or 87mm. I like the idea of having a much newer model with Toyota's revised designs.
    I've listed a couple of advantages above. The main ones being the refined intake manifold, COP (rather than retrofitting as I currently have with the Link) and much nicer turbo than the Frankenstein GT35/CT26 I currently have.

    1992 SW20 GT
    ... and loving it...
    #9
    TonyMR2
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 15:18:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Dudeman 2018/10/10 19:15:19
    +3 (3)
    ...what I know piece by piece.

    Gen2 engines are worn, for a new engine you need new rings, bearings, gaskets, arp head studs, bc valve springs, valve seals, water hoses (stoney kit plus genuine), gates high performance timing belt (gen depends on oil pump/sump combination), water pump, highflow thermostat - and spend a few thousand) plus. Gen5 motor (2008 onwards) is a ten year old motor - not anywhere near new and cost you the same as all your new components above and you won’t know the condition and hoses / gaskets may need replacing sooner than you expect.

    Block Gen2. There are many Gen2 blocks good available. I have one at a standard 86mm in good condition (not currently for sale), Falcon has some at varying bores (send down on e-go for cheap), many around. Machining cost ($1,000 depending on machine shop).

    Block. Different design in the block is close non existent in a gen4/5 to gen2 (strength) - all only good for sub 400rwhp as a daily (yes there are exceptions to the rule). If anything a closed gen4/5 motor is worse than what you have in many aspects and known for exceptionally weak rods.

    Oil flow. Gen5 has a majorly different oil pump (15mm gator vs 13mm)/ sump combination. You can use the 5s late model or ATS Racing high flow oil pump ($350 delivered) to achieve the same as the gen5 oil flow with a Gen2 sump. Or look for a gen3 sump (no crankshaft trigger, slightly less oil flow at pump than a gen4/5 however ample) or 4/5 sump (crankshaft trigger).

    Oil Cooler. Oil cooler is different but can adapt different oil coolers. Oil cooler is different as the gen3-5 has the oil filter at the sump.

    Ecu. You have a link ecu, far more customisable than a gen5 ecu. Adding a gen5 ct15 and it’s associated cams will be a bigger retune than rebuilding what you have.

    COP. I have one spare COP plate adapter ($100) or their are RacerX plates for Gen2 head. Buy plate and smart coils ($200), you have a link ecu that can trigger COP.

    Manifolds and turbos. Manifolds both intake and exhaust are different between gens. To use your turbo being better than the ct15, will require a gen3 exhaust manifold or custom cut and tap the ct15 manifold. Personally, use your Gen2 manifold, an ats straight throttle body inlet, tvis delete plate or phenolic spacer, gasket port match your exhaust manifold, your turbo, and you have the best flow at above stock boost pressure at best price.

    Camshafts. Gen3-5 has a slightly higher lift and duration. Buy aftermarket camshafts ($450 second hand - $1000 new) or n/a camshafts ($200) for even better performance than gen5 or buy gen3 camshafts ($300) for same performance as gen5. Adjustable camgears ($300) will net a little more power again. Camshafts are necessary to put more fuel and air in the engine to achieve more hp - not just higher boost aka manifold pressure.

    Overall, update your motor and you will spend all your money and have a new motor, more performance, COP if you really want them (ATS Racing own daily driven vehicles at 500 - 800rwhp cars use spark leads). Or buy a gen4/5, watch your spending and let us know how it goes.

    Build it your way, your choices, my list is overkill, just hope my thoughts help ensure you get your Mr2 back on the road for the least cost and most enjoyment (reliability). :)
    post edited by TonyMR2 - 2018/10/10 15:27:56
    #10
    zmit
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 15:38:43 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Thanks for the comments Tony.
    A lot of the points you've made relate to parts that I already have purchased/acquired for my gen2.
    I already have COPs and NA cams for a start.

    I think you have just convinced me there isn't much benefit to a gen4/gen5 compared with the mods I have available to my gen2 already.
    I just need to find one of these many gen2 blocks to start the rebuild.....

    1992 SW20 GT
    ... and loving it...
    #11
    TonyMR2
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    Re: Engine import assistance 2018/10/10 15:57:34 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Biggest thing to reitterate - if you build a Gen2, either go a gen3 sump with gen3 oil pump with gen3 oil pump cog and gen3 timing belt, or get the highflow ATS Racing oil pump (or model 5s Toyota oil pump) and Gen2 sump and Gen2 timing belt or a gen4/5 set up. Need to increase oil flow at pump capabilities. Gen2 has a weakness of oil pump flow in comparison to revisions there after.

    And lastly don’t skip little things that you know haven’t been done, like new valve seals, like hose from hell, oil cooler orings, distributor orings, new gaskets (oil pump etc), remove and clean your oil cooler, little things to make it reliable for the future for things that are a nightmare engine apart kinda operation.
    #12
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