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Hot!Gasket/pulling turbo etc questions 1990 SW20

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MG_MR2
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2018/04/22 14:59:08 (permalink)
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Gasket/pulling turbo etc questions 1990 SW20

Hey everyone,

I'm currently working on my engine and going down the path of checking/replacing things and putting in new gaskets. I do have some questions in terms of the most efficient way to get the gaskets I need. So...

1) can someone detail what's included in the Toyota engine overhaul gasket set? It appears the name might be slightly deceptive as it doesn't include 'every' gasket

2) My turbo is also the 7 stud turbine housing so I'm suspecting if I buy the gasket set for my car I'll get the 6 stud gasket, is this one ok to use? (From what I've read it seals fine but would like first hand experience to confirm)

3) Depending on the answer to question 1 it will dictate what else I will need. I did note supercheap auto had a 'full engine gasket set' sourced through Spanish brand Ajusa which from what I read is actually good quality. But again, do you think the supplier could actually give you a detailed list of what's included...no

The stage I'm at right now is:

a) removing the sump (an absolute PITA when RTV has formed a long term relationship with the block and isn't ready to let go) and re-doing with RTV (I know all about FIPG, Permatex black will be fine)

b) removing the turbo and replacing the exhaust manifold gasket and checking/replacing studs/nuts

c) replacing manifold to turbo gasket and turbo to down pipe gaskets and obviously oil/water gaskets. I'll also check down pipe studs and will replace nuts with new copper lock nuts

d) replacing oil cooler/housing O-rings

e) checking HFH and HFHOE hoses and replacing if need be

f) replacing AFM gasket (the rubber one)

g) replacing couple of intercooler hoses with silicone ones (they're basically all done except the funny shaped one from turbo to intercooler

h) replacing factory recirculating valve (I.e. BOV) O-ring

i) replacing throttle body gasket and both intake manifold gaskets

j) replacing rocker cover gaskets and the rubber/steel rocker cover bolt gaskets

k) obviously little rubber hoses etc that need doing I'll also do and inspecting parts as I go (I.e. AFM, idle control, TVIS). It's also getting a new 100amp alternator (as its electric power steering; if you're in the same boat ask me as these are basically non existent in Australia). I'll clean/paint things as I go along with heat wrapping down pipe/front pipe and putting on my Fujitsubo exhaust to replace my current system (I'll be making section with cat to go between front pipe and rear section)

l) I'll likely be removing the driver side CV joint/shaft for access and checking the seal while I'm there

m) as I've delved so deep I will try remove timing covers and check cam seals and timing belt condition (to go further with that with the engine in the car would be very difficult I feel)

Any thoughts/advice and recommendations in terms of parts ordering would be much appreciated. I'm bouncing between Amayama, supercheap, prime, fastener shop websites to figure out the best way of doing it.

I'm sure someone has done what I'm doing and could give my good advice.

Thanks!
post edited by MG_MR2 - 2018/04/30 12:07:03
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22 Replies Related Threads

    TonyMR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/22 16:45:03 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Megazip,net or village toyota parts have easy to use part number listings with diagrams. Then order based on your preference of supplier, I personally use amayama or partsouq (UAE - cheaper on some parts but highest freight).  Prime and ATS Racing is great if you want some aftermarket parts plus oem in one shipment (higher shipping from usa).
     
    Engine overhall kits a bit of an overkill for what you are describing in doing.
     
    HFH and HFHOE - regardless what they look like, replace them if you have the dump-pipe etc off to replace them.  They are cheap - amayama.
     
    IMO fix what is broken.  Priority is major service items (as in if it fails the engine dies); spark system (plugs, leads, distributor), gates performance timing belt, highflow/5s oil pump (ATS Racing), water pump (ebay), highflow thermostate (170 degree from ATS Racing), fuel filter, fuel injectors ultrasonic cleaned, fuel pump replaced (if not done by you in the last five years). Secondary is minor service items (if they fail tell there is tell-tail signs and not necessarily engine threatening), water hoses, seals.
     
    Major service can be done in the car however the additional difficulties slow you down to where its as quick to drop the engine to do everything and put it back in. If you are at that stage, throw your wallet at it and do everything possible whilst out and super efficient. 
     
    Depending on what state you are in, get to know your local mr2 peoples and can make the mechanical work easier with a but of guidance if required.  Best of luck,
    #2
    stuka
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/22 20:55:39 (permalink)
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    Given the extent of what you are planning you might be better of just taking the engine out and doing all the work with a lot easier access right round the engine, you will be able to have a proper look at everything that you wouldnt otherwise see. Event go so far as to take a look at the timing belt, tensioner etc, very easy to inspect and change with the engine out
     
    Have a good study of the diagrams and make sure you get the right bits for your genI/II, as the genIII has a lot of different bits. I get most things from Amayama and I have found WTFAuto in WA to be cheaper than anywhere else for some items. You will be able to get a proper 7 bolt gasket for your turbo, they are not cheap though.
    #3

    MG_MR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/22 21:32:53 (permalink)
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    Hmm interesting points.

    Tony, can you expand on the reasons for items you've indicated? The engine is actually in great condition so I'm reluctant to change things for the sake of changing

    The engine out idea has definitely crossed my mind many times but I feel like its a significant leap and particularly difficult without a hoist. Obviously the added difficulty is having to drop the engine/subframe from the bottom...
    #4
    Falcon
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/23 07:14:42 (permalink)
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    It isn't all that difficult to lower engine down under the car and work on it there without having to raise the chassis to drag it out. Gives good access to everything and if covered with cloth it won't get gravel in it from above.
    Definitely new HFH. and HFHOE. Take a real close look at the steel hardlines in that area as they can be in pretty bad condition and choked with corrosion. They allow the oil cooler to be efficient OR NOT.
    Be careful of water pumps with pressed steel impellors. Original Aisin pumps have cast metal foil shaped blades on their impellors. I suspect for a very good reason.
    If you are still on the genuine ECU. be wary of a colder thermostat. Genuine Toyota is very reliable and allows correct fueling operation etc.
    Setting up cam timing and timing belt tensioner with engine in car can be done BUT it can be very interesting!
    You will learn some new swear words.
    Have you checked the oil pressure before starting all this? If not you can still get a bit of an idea by doing it now by removing spark plugs and spinning it with the starter. What I'm on about is that it may not need a new oil pump.
    They rarely wear out unless subjected to debris ?
    #5
    Eric
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/23 08:11:56 (permalink)
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    I agree with the above, dropping the engine will make your life a lot easier. the first time took me about 3 hours to drop it


    Start by undoing everything you can with the car on stands. 
     
    Take the bumper skin off and leave the bar and tow hooks in place. using an engine crane and some chain, lift the rear of the car up and place on stands. 
     
    Hook onto the engine and gearbox and lower the whole assembly down onto the ground aand slide out the wheel well, reverse for installation. 

    Or as Falcon stated, you can simply lower it to the ground and work on it under the car, provided the car is safely raised up.

    1990 SW20 Hardtop - Supercharged 2GR-FZE
    #6
    MG_MR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/23 08:59:39 (permalink)
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    Some good points, you're making me want to do it which is a bad thing as with limited time progress is slow as I only get couple of hours here and there. As always you see things to fix, replace, clean along the way.

    Falcon: oil pressure was a big thing I checked on a regular basis. From the factory sender position on an autometer gauge (t piece from factory spot to electronic sender) it was over factory specs of 4.3psi at warm idle and 36psi at 3000rpm. That was with 10w50 oil (I'm going to 10w40). While the figures weren't much over factory specs they are within. If you can give any further input id be keen to hear it? (Hopefully this doesn't start the oil pressure debate)
    #7
    TonyMR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/23 09:35:37 (permalink)
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    The engines can be clean and looking good ticking away, being beautiful with age. There is no debate though, they are now over 25 years old and need "service love"

    The parts listed I recommended "major" are items often not attended to (even skipped by mechanics in just changing a timing belt without doing other items required) and critical as in when they fail they create major damage quickly. There are many things that can fail to cause damage but these are known common issues. If you wait for them to fail you will likely damage the engine. Once it is done you have peace of mind for 80,000-100,000kms.

    There are upgrade parts to these components that have shown better or revised performance than the stock design of gen2 back in the 1980s. Such as the 5s oil pump vs 3s (for gen2) and many reasons for necessity for the upgrade.

    There are many parts that you might as well do with the engine out. As described by Falcon "out" is as simple as lowered below the frame so you can get a rattle gun square on the camgears. Ensure you crack the crank bolt before dropping the engine in case your rattle gun is not strong enough and need to go old method of turning the car over. Order two HFHOE to replace hose number 5 back of the engine (parts no longer available), much knowledge gained from google or forum will help you - take it in as advice and opinions is all.

    Falcons point of thermostat is valid in some aftermarkets drop the temp too much and cause the vehicle to be in a "cold" mode, the ATS Racing thermostat has been tested, is only a couple of degrees celcius cooler in operating the valve movement (doesn't completely open at low temp), and does not cause the ECU issues. I would be recommending the ATS Racing based on modified, and/or race, and/or live in a hot environment - otherwise stock temp high flow is fine. Individual circumstances vary the recommendation.

    Unfortunately there is no one seller that will give you all the parts at the best price, rather many like Amayama for hose from hell, partsouq or ATS for oil pump, eBay uk for spark plugs, eBay Australia or local auto store for gates racing timing belt (r model from memory), etc. Then depending on what "upgrade parts" you consider doing, ATS racing straight throttle body inlet and and and and :)-
    #8
    5SGTE
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/23 20:16:39 (permalink)
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    Oh ****, I almost contributed to an OP debate. Phew Glad I read back.
    #9
    Falcon
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/24 06:04:03 (permalink)
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    What contribution did you wish to make Kris?  It aint a debate--------yet.
    I'm a bit fascinated though. MG. You have the sump off. So was there any debris (carbon granules, sludge, metallic swarf, old gasket bits) caught on the pickup gauze ??  If yes then you can bet smaller stuff has gone through the pump and should be present in the filter. Use a tin opener type tool to cut open the filter and examine element.
    You haven't stated your actual oil pressures, only that they are above minimums. These 3S engines seem to be able to suffer a fair bit of abuse even with lower than optimum pressures but if you are heading for track work it may be advisable to examine the pump and maybe even fit new bearings. They are known to take out their bigend bearings but that is usually achieved with sticky tyres on track. Lots of them running about with big kms. and have never had an oil pressure gauge near them!  Ignorance being bliss comes to mind?? Congrats to you for monitoring pressures.
    I would not advise shimming the oil pressure relief valve on a high km. engine.
    Why are you reducing the oil viscosity from 50 back to 40 ?  How many kms. on this engine ?
    #10
    MG_MR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/24 22:39:23 (permalink)
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    Hey Falcon,

    Sump isn't off yet, it's really stuck on one side still (side closest to front of car as engine is tilted up and hard to get any leverage on).

    The whole oil pressure thing just goes around in circles, hence why I didn't bother with exact figures, there's a wide range of variables that come into it and in my view Toyota is telling you the safe range.

    I don't quite understand the big end/sticky tires comment? Are you referring to the extra load placed on the engine? Is the shimming of oil pressure relief valves a way of raising oil pressure?

    In terms of kms, the car has about 200k kms but the engine is rebuilt (the car has an interesting/somewhat unknown history) based on a number of observations I've made. Hence dropping viscosity a bit; partly because I feel it's a fresh engine and just to see how I like the viscosity/brand (trying Nulon)
    #11
    Falcon
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/25 06:28:45 (permalink)
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    Sticky tyres allow greater G forces to be generated and lateral G will cause the oil to Gravitate to the ends of the engine and away from the pickup point. Oil pump draws air. Goodbye bigend bearings. Longer right hand curves that push the oil toward the flywheel end of the engine appear to achieve the greatest result. Have a peek inside your sump to see what prevents the oil migrating away from the pickup.
    These little cars originally came out with 195-205 - 60 - 14  not very wonderful tyres and sump design to match.
    A number of blokes using the Gen2 engines install the Moroso sump to operate safely under G loadings.
    Shimming oil pressure relief valve is a means to raise oil pressure BUT is not recommended on an old loose toleranced engine.
    #12
    MG_MR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/25 17:12:31 (permalink)
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    Interesting.

    So I'm standing at my engine torn about dropping the engine. I can see the benefits but ill be going down a rabbit hole.

    If anyone out there in Sydney is keen to give me a hand, learn a few things, have a beer over a weekend and maybe has an engine crane it might be my deciding factor...

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    MG_MR2
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/26 09:50:20 (permalink)
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    On a side note, any strong opinions between using Permatex ultra grey or ultra black for rocker cover, oil pan etc?
    #14
    Carmikey
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    Re: Gasket kit questions 1990 SW20 2018/04/26 11:33:23 (permalink)
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    MG_MR2
    On a side note, any strong opinions between using Permatex ultra grey or ultra black for rocker cover, oil pan etc?
    I've always used the black one as it has an 'oil resistantance', from memory, permatex offer two slightly different Black's. Not sure about the grey, never used it to be honest.

    Sent from my SM-J320ZN using Tapatalk


    post edited by Carmikey - 2018/04/26 13:12:17
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