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Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range

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andezzat
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2017/01/02 22:56:43 (permalink)
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Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range

Hello all,
 
Hope you're having a delightful start to your new year.
 
I've had my 96 Bathurst, BEAMS swapped NA for some time now and I can't help but be absolutely shocked at how slow it is. I struggle to keep up with anything on the road, even normal sedans and hatches!
My engine is definitely not running right. I'm having huge issues in the low RPM range, from 1,000 all the way to 4,000, only then do I see a decent kick in and the car starts actually moving. I always have to rev to 3.5 - 4k RPM in 1st gear in order to keep up with seemingly very normal traffic, this is with fairly quick shifts, so I know that's not the issue.
 
My fuel economy is decent, I average 8 - 9L/100km with mixed driving, can get 7L/100km on freeways, sometimes slightly better actually!
 
I also get gaps where the needle slows down then goes on between 1K - 4K RPM, then it's much smoother from 4K RPM to 7k RPM and that's when the kick comes in, and it's a very noticeable kick.
It feels like a turbo that just hit boost, and I've been told the BEAMS is meant to be much more linear.
 
Simply put, I got beaten by a Forrester with 29kW less than the BEAMS and only 20NM of torque more, that weighs 200kg more... Clearly shouldn't have happened. Something is wrong.
 
I've tried running a different high-end intake from my mate, as I'm currently running a basic pod filter (I know, BEAMS intake is the best, but I can't get my hands on one of those fairy-tales) and I reset my battery in order to put the engine in learning mode, that didn't get rid of the gaps in my low-end RPM range.
 
Any thoughts? Could this be an ignition or timing related issue? Has someone faced this exact problem before?
 
Thanks in advance and sorry for rambling on, just wanted to clear as many things up for you all and provide as much information as needed.
 
 
EDIT: Worth mentioning, my RPMs take a while to start dropping, and even when I let go of the gas and clutch, it's still sluggish, and I could tell that when I drove my mate's Subie Forester, was so easy to shift and have RPMs drop rapidly!
 
-Andrew
post edited by andezzat - 2017/01/05 09:48:14
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49 Replies Related Threads

    just_ace
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/03 00:09:29 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Maybe try something like this as you dont have the correct intake.
    http://www.hitunedperform...air-straightener-86mm/
    #2
    mister2
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/03 19:44:05 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    The other option is to try and find a SARD SportsEX + pod filter like this (SARD Part Number 59340):
     
    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.jp%2FSARD-%25E3%2583%2588%25E3%2583%2583%25E3%2583%2597%25E3%2582%25A4%25E3%2583%25B3%25E3%2583%2586%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2582%25AF-SPORTS-VVT-I-59340%2Fdp%2FB00R7NPNA0&edit-text=
     
    These are the only aftermarket pod filters that have any reputation for working reasonably with the BEAMS engines. One of the reasons is for that is that they come with a MAF mount/intake pipe of the precisely correct diameter.
    #3

    andezzat
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/03 19:51:19 (permalink)
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    Awesome suggestions everyone, I appreciate it.
     
    But is that really the cause of my problem?
    #4
    Mrskylighter
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/03 19:54:24 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    There are some sellers of that intake kit in Japan on Yahoo. You could ask a company like Gorilla Industries (forum sponsor) to buy it for you as they have Japanese bank accounts and Yahoo logins etc.
     
    http://search.shopping.ya...hp_pc_search_searchBox
    #5
    banner
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/03 21:12:22 (permalink)
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    Have you had a mechanic or a 3SGE owner assess it?
    #6

    andezzat
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/03 21:13:22 (permalink)
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    Nope. No one. I don't know who to go to that would actually know what they're looking at.. :/
    #7
    banner
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/04 06:05:40 (permalink)
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    What state are you in? Maybe another forum member can confirm the issue and offer a good local MR2 mechanic. I'm in Vic and can have a look at it but I haven't driven a 3SGE for years. Current cars a 3SGTE.
    #8
    andezzat
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/04 07:49:40 (permalink)
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    I'm also in VIC, residing in Knox City area. :)
    #9
    banner
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/04 15:38:42 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    if you want, we can catch up on the weekend somewhere. All I can offer is my opinion 😕
    #10
    andezzat
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/04 22:10:23 (permalink)
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    Sure, I'll PM you to see if we can sort something out. I appreciate this a lot in advance!
     
    Also, for everyone else, I noticed when I drove my mate's Subie Forester that when I clutch in his RPMs start to drop much quicker than mine. I get a massive lag, sometimes even a bump in RPM when I clutch in. I've tried completely letting off the gas and pausing for a split second before clutching, it works but it makes my shifting slow and the RPM still take a while to drop!
     
    On the Forester they drop so quickly when I do that, just like you'd expect...
    I'm sure it's not meant to be like that in a 3SGE!!!
     
    Thoughts? :/
    #11
    Dudeman
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/05 00:54:54 (permalink)
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    andezzat
     I get a massive lag, sometimes even a bump in RPM when I clutch in. 



    Not that i'm a mechanic, but could that be the butterfly in the throttle body being sticky? If its reluctant to open, then opens up wide in one go, could explain the acceleration response - and being sluggish to close could explain the other problem.
     
    A previous owner may have run it with a bodgy air filter, as you say you don't have the beams one. The throttle may have sucked some gunk in.

    .
    .
     
           
    #12
    Admin
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/05 08:35:48 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    It sounds like your ecu isn't sensing load correctly. I don't know how these engines are set up and they may sense load via a MAF and/or MAP sensors. Make sure that you have these in place and they are wired correctly. If the wiring is good, try different sensors to see if yours are faulty.

    Mr Glengineering.
    Please visit my other forums - 
    www.celica.org.au
    www.classic-ford.org
     
     
    My build thread - https://www.mr2australia..m/mr2play/FindPost/47893
    #13
    Admin
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/05 08:41:00 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=91467

    MAF sensor: The MAF sensor is no different than any other MAF, but the BEAMS ECU treats it differently. The BEAMS ECU is incredibly finicky when it comes to the MAF and it has very tight tolerances. The BEAMS ECU relies very heavily on the MAF to determine the air/fuel ratio, and it was designed to work with the stock intake. If the MAF begins to malfunction, the ECU will trim fuel, causing your engine to run improperly. Unfortunately, this means that the ECU cannot cope with any other intake besides the stock intake. This will throw the MAF readings off, meaning you will not get proper air/fuel ratios and therefore cutting power, often significantly. The best alternative to the stock intake is the SARD Sports EX Plus intake, available from rhdjapan.com, but there have been several dyno charts showing gains by replacing an aftermarket intake with the OEM intake. You can buy just the Redtop intake lid, which has the MAF housing built in, and it will fit right on top of your stock intake box, giving you a full OEM BEAMS intake.

    Mr Glengineering.
    Please visit my other forums - 
    www.celica.org.au
    www.classic-ford.org
     
     
    My build thread - https://www.mr2australia..m/mr2play/FindPost/47893
    #14
    andezzat
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    Re: Redtop BEAMS - Terrible Low-end torque and dead spots in RPM range 2017/01/05 09:44:31 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the reply, Admin!
    I've looked into that forum thread you showed me, that's how I found out about the MAF/ECU issues. It could possibly be that or a combination of.
     
    I've looked into trying to acquire the intake or getting the "Redtop intake lid" and getting it on "stock intake box", but I couldn't find the part number provided, and I made a thread about that before, which wasn't much help.
    #15
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