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Helpful ReplyExperiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE?

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Steve_A
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2016/07/27 19:10:10 (permalink)
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Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE?

Does anyone have any experience dropping Gen 2 N/A cams into a Gen 2 turbo head? Seems to be some conflicting info online with some people recommending both, some saying intake only and retard exhaust and others saying exhaust only.
 
Be great to hear from someone who's done this or knows someone who has, specs below:
 
Gen 2 3SGE):
In: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 7/57)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)
 
Gen 2 3SGTE:
In: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 8/48)
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 56/0)
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    Guest
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/27 22:02:37 (permalink)
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    Yep, give me a buzz or Facebook.

    Late night quick reply...

    Gen 2 3sge cam upgrade is great with increased boost levels. Stock 3sgte springs and retainers can be used to a maximum of 9mm lift. Therefore this is the cheap option, drop in / shim, achieved power increase through 3sge gen 2 cams. Aftermarket standard lift cams can yield even better results with 264 duration and 9mm lift.

    Gen 3 3sge cam upgrade (intake) is even better with increased boost levels. 9.8mm lift 254 duration (from memory). However you need to upgrade your valve springs, shim under bucket or shimless bucket conversion (adding big $$$s). Due to the lift / duration increases you have reached flow restrictions in the head so best for a port and polish job (adding $$$s). Aftermarket high lift high duration cams can yield even better results at 264 and 272 at 9.8mm and above lift.

    Both will depend on boost levels and other factors to results.

    Why some people say just the intake of a gen 2 3sge, is due to making assumptions / relating to the 3sgte gen 3 cams profile where they had a larger intake than exhaust cam. Aftermarket cams that are said to yield the best results are the same spec for intake and exhaust.

    Both will need adjustable cam gears (to align exhaust timing to suit the turbo motor) and best for an aftermarket ECU. Both will need a dyno tuner to set cam timing. Both will yield higher power and higher fuel consumption. Both cost a lot more money than just a set of cams.
    #2
    just_ace
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/27 23:27:57 (permalink)
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    If you can get the cams for a reasonable price and install them yourself then yes its worthwhile. I did this years ago on my sw20. No downsides only positive.
    #3

    EssDub
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/28 12:22:06 (permalink)
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    You can do the SuB conversion using 1ZZ-FE shims from memory, so it's not really that expensive, just time-consuming!

    Currently...
    '03 Spyder 6MT - T28 inc...
    ------------------------------
    Previously...
    '00 FD3S
    '94 SW20 Bathurst R
    '88 AW11
    '92 SW20 G-Limited
    '90 SW20 G
    '91 SW20 Mongrel
    '94 G Limited T-Bar
    '92 GT-S Turbo 
     
     
    #4
    Steve_A
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/28 19:33:58 (permalink)
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    Yeh I have my old gen2 NA that I'm parting out so the cams will be free. Looking to have a bit of fun with my current block while I get ready to put the new one in.

    just_Ace did you use gen 2 cams in your with the stock springs? And if so what kind of boost did you run?

    essdub, what do you mean by SuB conversion?
    #5
    5SGTE
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/28 20:14:48 (permalink)
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    Shim under bucket but isn't the 1zz shimless buckets? Pretty sure mine came from either a 1zz or a 2zz...
    #6
    Steve_A
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/28 22:09:42 (permalink)
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    Ahh ok I see, I don't think I'd bother going shimless since I don't think I'd be spitting shims with 8.5mm lift or am I wrong assuming that?
     
    If I just drop the cams in then  already have everything I need in the yard which is pretty appealing. 
    #7
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/29 07:12:03 (permalink)
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    Professional set up; You will need to measure all your valve clearances to ensure are within spec.
    You need adjustable cam gears to do an adjustment off approx 4 degrees on the exhaust, as n/a and turbo run slightly different timing. You need a dyno to dial in and tune correctly - that is different for different boost levels.

    Home mechanic set up; drop it cams, check valve clearance, run 4 degrees on the exhaust cam and it should be close to right. Check online guides for more details
    It will run but the airflow won't be tuned to the boost levels you will be running (like having incorrect air fuel ration - it may run but it's not efficient on power/fuel).

    Shimless and associated pieces for a built head give you lighter / stronger valves to work against higher boost levels, allows you to run higher rpm (higher rpm yields higher hp). Expensive some think, time consuming it is, but hp gains :) higher rpm
    #8
    just_ace
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/29 13:55:43 (permalink)
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    The gen2 ge and gte use the same vlavle bucket setup. Tho you'd imagine the gte springs would be firmer.

    I just dropped them straight in, didnt even need to adjust shims. The lift and duration increase is really minimal, you dont need to upgrade anything.

    The big gains is from the timing. Im sure people running 264s and 272 cams have more overlap than these will give you.

    I had a hiflow turbo with 14psi std ecu and a hks fcd. Pulled hard to redline unlike the suffocation at 5500/6000rm of the stock cams.

    If you have the stock turbo im not sure how well it will flow in the higher rpm.

    I may have a single modified stock cam gear floating around if you want to adjust the timing in the exh.
    #9
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/29 14:21:17 (permalink)
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    The Toyota cams in comparison all come from the same blank, hence have the same numbers stamped on the camshaft, hence should have the same size of valve clearance (.15 to .18 from memory - online write up).
    Therefore they should not need shim adjustment. However whilst it's apart grab the feeler gauge, and check cam clearance - last thing you want is high boost, high rpm and sim clearance not correct on one cylinder.
    Camshaft timing (turbo to n/a in a turbo) makes a difference to fuel economy and power, get adjustable cams :) or modified or adjust by a tooth :)

    There is the argument it's an old engine, replace everything with high comp, titanium and aircraft engineered products :) spend mega dollars for things you will never see .... wife will be upset but it's ok - lol - because you are a happy mr2 owner :)
    #10
    5SGTE
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/29 15:49:27 (permalink)
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    Steve's doing both by the sounds of it.
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    Steve_A
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/29 17:43:09 (permalink)
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    I'll be getting a tune don't worry about that, more concerned with how much boost the 3sgte springs can take as I'd be running 20-25psi from a 3071.

    I have adjustable cam gears too so that's sorted, it can't hurt to get the feelers out and make sure but it'll be nice if it's works out not needing anything else.

    I think I see t way to much money on the 2 a long time ago, I'm committed now haha!!
    #12
    5SGTE
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/29 20:16:11 (permalink)
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    What's happening with your mac daddy build?
    #13
    Steve_A
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2016/07/30 17:01:32 (permalink)
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    It's coming together slowly but surely! I have the block and head sorted for it now but I want to get my brakes, suspension and drive train sorted before starting on the engine transplant. 
     
    The next thing I need to address is some crunching going in to 3rd. Since the box was rebuilt 4 years ago I'm going to try new transmission oil (minus the friction modifiers currently used for the LSD) first and if that doesn't fix it then I'll get it rebuilt again.
     
    In the mean time I've picked up some extra bits and pieces and I plan to have a bit of fun with them on the current setup to satisfy me in the mean time :)
    #14
    Admin
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    Re: Experiences dropping 3S-GE cam into 3S-GTE? 2017/12/11 19:18:24 (permalink)
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    Apologies for resurrecting this old thread. Do any of you have any gen2 3SGE cams in good condition that you would like to part with? I would like to try something.

    Mr Glengineering.
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    My build thread - https://www.mr2australia..m/mr2play/FindPost/47893
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