Deco
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High IAT - intercooler options.
My car has just come back from being tuned and has been limited to 217kw due to very high IAT (95℃).
My current intercooler set up is a Phoenix Power unit with the stock fan. Which is one of the biggest SMIC you can find but it seems it can't keep up. My tuner has advised me to go for a 1200hp frozen boost W2A IC but he's not fussed as long as there is a solution to the high temperature. It seems a bit overkill to me since I'm only looking to make 260kw and the weight/cost penalty of the system also bothers me a bit also.
I have been looking at a few options but I'm not sure which will be best with . Hope you guys can share some knowledge/opinions which can hopefully put me in the right direction.
Option 1: 1200hp frozen boost W2A IC ($2500 +/- installed and running and an extra 30kg +/- in weight)
Option 2: Keep the Phoenix Power IC and add water/meth ( $700 for a kit, extra 5-8kg of weight)
Option 3: Go a larger top mount A2A IC and add water/meth. (Unsure of cost of IC and fabricated pipes, extra 10kg +/- in weight)
1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)
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Knightrous
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/09 17:23:01
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Do it right once, option 1.
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Guest
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/09 17:31:57
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Could be radiating heat, ambient heat or inefficiencies of the turbo at the psi you are pushing to. What radiating and ambient temperature measures do you have in place (see checklist below), what turbo and psi are you running?
Assuming you have an extended intake pipe to put your air filter hard into the side air intake vent. Assuming you already have a intercooler block off plate, intercooler shroud and aftermarket fan on it. Assuming you have heat shielding on your exhaust manifold. Assuming you have heat reflection on your piping to and after the intercooler. Assuming you have the engine lid fan shroud with two rans. Assuming you have the under engine plastic that helps scoop air up into the engine bay. Assuming you have an intercooler water sprayer (external). If you don't have all that, then that's where y would start spending your money.
All the above ticked, run meth/water injection to assist.
Personally I don't like water to air intercooler, but that's just my views.
Boot mount big intercooler, ducking from wheel arches, custom floor pan, aftermarket fans, water sprayers, reversed throttle body / intake manifold, is holding down temps on 400+rwhp mr2s.
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Steve_A
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/09 17:49:19
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I have no experience with it but you could try that Border racing intercooler that's in the for sale section? I think the price has been reduced since its been sitting there for a while, so it could be worth experimenting with it.
Do you have a shroud on your intercooler atm? If not get one and pair it with a big SPAL fan, if you are leaning towards keeping A2A you can still use the fan later on if you went trunk mount.
If I remember rightly I think Totenkopf did a group order for shrouds not too long ago and had a couple extras done up!
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Deco
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/09 17:56:52
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It seems at this point it's radiating heat without enough airflow in the engine bay. Turbo is a TD06 20g running on 17psi.
Air filter is more or less in the stock location, I'll look at trying to get it closer down to the vent. Block off plate/shroud check. It's running the stock gen 3 fan currently. Stock manifold heat shield check. No reflection on the IC pipes at this point, if it's gaining heat anywhere it will be the IC pipe over the manifold shield. Engine lid fan shroud I have ready to install, this should in theory make a decent difference. Stock plastic under tray check. No IC water sprayer.
Thanks for your input! Certain a few areas there I can work on.
1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)
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Dudeman
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/09 20:36:47
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Steve_A
I have no experience with it but you could try that Border racing intercooler that's in the for sale section? I think the price has been reduced since its been sitting there for a while, so it could be worth experimenting with it.
That looks like pretty damn good value for that asking price, surprised it hasn't gone already. Get on to Julian asap!
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Guest
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/09 23:48:02
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So upgrades needed, $80 (from memory) telefunk (user name from memory) intercooler fan shroud and aftermarket slim fan 9 " is generally the size (needs to be rewired as aftermarket fans can have issues with the stock fan relay attached to the ecu - have it running with ignition). Curved blade fans have shown to have a higher airflow and quieter noise. Fans can range from $60(eBay Chinese copy) -$300 (spal)
$50 for some heat aluminium / fibreglass heat wrap from your local hot rod shop, and $20 for some race tie wire to secure each end. Wrap both the cold and hot pipes (before and after the intercooler.
$25 plus other small items for eBay windscreen washer water spray kit, plus wiring (various ways to wire up on open throttle or if you have a piggyback or aftermarket ecu output trigger). Lot of time to fit and customise.
Intake pipe extension, super cheap auto $25, and need to customise some brackets.
You can get ceramic coating on the heat shield, hundreds for the professional stuff or $25 for can of paint at the auto store with ceramic (low percentage) however every bit counts.
With a td06, are your running an adapter plate or custom manifold? Ensure it has heat shielding the wraps the manifold to slow down radiating heat.
Also confirming the tuner said intake not exhaust temperatures were high.... Exhaust temps high can mean different things to above, like at that boost you need a step colder in spark plugs, fuel supply (aftermarket/modified fuel rail, upgraded injectors, upgraded fuel pump) and grade of oil etc...
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Deco
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/10 13:26:49
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Awesome stuff, thanks Tony.
I've got one of toten's shrouds, I just need to source some 11' fans. I've got fiberglass heat wrap in the garage so I'm sorted in that front also.
I'm running the ATS T3 adapter plate. Definitely intake temperature. He was seeing 95℃ at the throttle body after a couple runs. I'm running safe on the fuel side of things; I've got Sard 850s in the gen 3 rail and a walbro 255 pump.
1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)
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Mrskylighter
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/10 22:05:21
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☼ Best Answerby Dudeman 2016/04/11 07:32:14
My 2c, I had intercooler heat soak issues a couple of times in my previous SW20 as it went through it's different engine setups. When i had a stock motor with a Greddy T67 hanging off the side running a Power FC, Pump, injectors, exhaust etc I used a Greddy copy intercooler with the metal shroud/plate to seal it to the air vent and a fan shroud with an ATS 8 or 9in fan on the engine side of the intercooler. Also custom heat shielding on the tubular Greddy manifold. On the dyno it got up to just under 250RWKW but was heat soaking pretty bad. They were letting it cool down for a while and then going again. Eventually the engine broke (3 of 4 pistons) which could be down to the hot intake air and the tuner struggling with this. It was a mad turbo though, came on boost like a maniac. Yep still drove it for a whole with broken piston ring lands. Rebuilt that motor into the last engine the car had with 316RWKW from a GT35R at around 20psi from memory. I built the intercooler myself which was boot mounted, 700mm x 300mm x 100mm (huge), 2 x 12inch high volume fans, holes cut in the boot floor for the air to escape and modifications to let cold air enter from the wheel wells. This intercooler never went a few degrees over ambient air temp ever to my knowledge. It was truly an overkill setup. If I had to install an intercooler again on an SW20 with medium sized turbo or larger I would just go with the large cheap water to air cores everyone seems to be using positioned on the side of the engine bay where the air filter is. Super short IC piping and out of the way heat wise. You keep your boot intact and can fit a dedicated fan to cool the engine bay where the intercooler once was. One last thing I would say is, I thought a TD06 running on a stock motor (with ecu) wouldn't get much higher then say 220-230RWKW anyway. DVSTR8 on here has a TD06 on his gen2 and I think it is around 210RWKW. Maybe people are getting more these days? I haven't been following this sort of thing for like 5 years now so out of date haha
post edited by Mrskylighter - 2016/04/11 07:40:03
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Nik_Lee
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/11 10:42:18
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Thought I would re-share something that Steve_A shared on another thread that you might also be interested in. I think it sounds brilliant for anyone who is using an air to air intercooler and I am thinking of using it as well. http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527
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Deco
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/11 14:50:32
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Mrskylighter
My 2c,
I had intercooler heat soak issues a couple of times in my previous SW20 as it went through it's different engine setups.
When i had a stock motor with a Greddy T67 hanging off the side running a Power FC, Pump, injectors, exhaust etc I used a Greddy copy intercooler with the metal shroud/plate to seal it to the air vent and a fan shroud with an ATS 8 or 9in fan on the engine side of the intercooler. Also custom heat shielding on the tubular Greddy manifold.
On the dyno it got up to just under 250RWKW but was heat soaking pretty bad. They were letting it cool down for a while and then going again. Eventually the engine broke (3 of 4 pistons) which could be down to the hot intake air and the tuner struggling with this. It was a mad turbo though, came on boost like a maniac. Yep still drove it for a whole with broken piston ring lands.
Rebuilt that motor into the last engine the car had with 316RWKW from a GT35R at around 20psi from memory.
I built the intercooler myself which was boot mounted, 700mm x 300mm x 100mm (huge), 2 x 12inch high volume fans, holes cut in the boot floor for the air to escape and modifications to let cold air enter from the wheel wells.
This intercooler never went a few degrees over ambient air temp ever to my knowledge. It was truly an overkill setup.
If I had to install an intercooler again on an SW20 with medium sized turbo or larger I would just go with the large cheap water to air cores everyone seems to be using positioned on the side of the engine bay where the air filter is. Super short IC piping and out of the way heat wise. You keep your boot intact and can fit a dedicated fan to cool the engine bay where the intercooler once was.
One last thing I would say is, I thought a TD06 running on a stock motor (with ecu) wouldn't get much higher then say 220-230RWKW anyway. DVSTR8 on here has a TD06 on his gen2 and I think it is around 210RWKW.
Maybe people are getting more these days? I haven't been following this sort of thing for like 5 years now so out of date haha
With any luck going a boot mounted IC wont be necessary. If it came to that I'd most certainly go W2A; cutting up my boot doesn't appeal to me all too much haha. Hmm not sure what a TD06 grabs on average on a stock motor. But with just 850 injectors and a ECU it made the 217kw easily on only 17psi. MRC reckons if the temperature was lower he could pull about 10kw more out of it easily enough which is about right with what your saying.
1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)
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Knightrous
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/11 15:22:47
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Asimovy did a boot mount initially and MRC found the exact same issues with IAT's when tuning the car. The exhaust just radiates a bunch of heat that the intercooler soaks up even with thermo fans fitted. MRC advised Asimovy to go W2A like RobK's setup. Once installed the IAT's issue went away, keeping it to only ~10'c above ambient and letting the car finally make 210RWKW (Was struggling to do 195 previously).
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Mrskylighter
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/11 15:32:10
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Deco
Mrskylighter
My 2c,
I had intercooler heat soak issues a couple of times in my previous SW20 as it went through it's different engine setups.
When i had a stock motor with a Greddy T67 hanging off the side running a Power FC, Pump, injectors, exhaust etc I used a Greddy copy intercooler with the metal shroud/plate to seal it to the air vent and a fan shroud with an ATS 8 or 9in fan on the engine side of the intercooler. Also custom heat shielding on the tubular Greddy manifold.
On the dyno it got up to just under 250RWKW but was heat soaking pretty bad. They were letting it cool down for a while and then going again. Eventually the engine broke (3 of 4 pistons) which could be down to the hot intake air and the tuner struggling with this. It was a mad turbo though, came on boost like a maniac. Yep still drove it for a whole with broken piston ring lands.
Rebuilt that motor into the last engine the car had with 316RWKW from a GT35R at around 20psi from memory.
I built the intercooler myself which was boot mounted, 700mm x 300mm x 100mm (huge), 2 x 12inch high volume fans, holes cut in the boot floor for the air to escape and modifications to let cold air enter from the wheel wells.
This intercooler never went a few degrees over ambient air temp ever to my knowledge. It was truly an overkill setup.
If I had to install an intercooler again on an SW20 with medium sized turbo or larger I would just go with the large cheap water to air cores everyone seems to be using positioned on the side of the engine bay where the air filter is. Super short IC piping and out of the way heat wise. You keep your boot intact and can fit a dedicated fan to cool the engine bay where the intercooler once was.
One last thing I would say is, I thought a TD06 running on a stock motor (with ecu) wouldn't get much higher then say 220-230RWKW anyway. DVSTR8 on here has a TD06 on his gen2 and I think it is around 210RWKW.
Maybe people are getting more these days? I haven't been following this sort of thing for like 5 years now so out of date haha
With any luck going a boot mounted IC wont be necessary. If it came to that I'd most certainly go W2A; cutting up my boot doesn't appeal to me all too much haha.
Hmm not sure what a TD06 grabs on average on a stock motor. But with just 850 injectors and a ECU it made the 217kw easily on only 17psi. MRC reckons if the temperature was lower he could pull about 10kw more out of it easily enough which is about right with what your saying.
Do you think it's worth the coin to install a full W2A system for 10RWKW though? You could just improve your A2A with shrouds and fan upgrade and keep the current tune (which would be very reliable no doubt as timing would have been pulled out due to the heat)
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Deco
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/11 17:01:26
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Knightrous
Asimovy did a boot mount initially and MRC found the exact same issues with IAT's when tuning the car. The exhaust just radiates a bunch of heat that the intercooler soaks up even with thermo fans fitted. MRC advised Asimovy to go W2A like RobK's setup. Once installed the IAT's issue went away, keeping it to only ~10'c above ambient and letting the car finally make 210RWKW (Was struggling to do 195 previously).
Hmm this is my worry. That even with all the fans; it may only drop the temperature by 10 degrees. Mrskylighter
Do you think it's worth the coin to install a full W2A system for 10RWKW though? You could just improve your A2A with shrouds and fan upgrade and keep the current tune (which would be very reliable no doubt as timing would have been pulled out due to the heat)
No it wouldnt be worth it at all. But I guess going either W2A or Water/Meth Injection is more about reducing the intake temperature so that the engine is safe and also to reliably maintaining a low intake temperature at my 260kw goal.
1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)
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dylmrt
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Re: High IAT - intercooler options.
2016/04/11 17:30:14
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Its really all about airflow. I ran a sidemount and had the same issues on a dyno, but at the track on a hot summer's day, it never really went past 25-35 degress above ambient.
I now have a border top mount and on the freeway (haven't tracked it for ages now) its at the 45-55 deg mark in summer, so its now only 15-25 degress above ambient. But if I sit on a dyno, then yes, we're talking major heatsoak issues, because the airflow just isn't enough on the dyno.
IF reliability is your goal then yes, W2A/Meth injection will help reduce knock from overly high intake temps. But so will not boosting it like crazy when its already running really hot ;)
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