rikkir
Supporter
- Total Posts : 1286
- Scores: 242
- Reward points: 2404
- Joined: 2014/01/13 12:18:44
- Location: Ceduna, South Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/26 18:23:20
(permalink)
I have the DeltaV and think they are a huge improvement on the old worn bushes.
|
kameleon
Supporter
- Total Posts : 2733
- Scores: 106
- Reward points: 6018
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: melbourne vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/26 21:51:50
(permalink)
Still shocked people are using solid bushings in these cables after all these years of people knowing the cables need to act dynamically not fixed.
Purchase one of the spherical options on the market over anything else as far as i am concerned.
|
Reddtarga
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 2175
- Scores: 249
- Reward points: 5547
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/27 09:47:34
(permalink)
tiff_lee
Reddtarga
A solid brass bush should be fine for the top cable end, to take out some slack in the feel at the gear lever.
However because of the shift lever geometry at the transmission end, the lower cable is the one that does all the flexing (and is also the one that tends to break) so I believe the stock rubber bush is the best option there.
I would not recommend fitting spherical bearings.
Why would you not recommend the use of spherical bearings? they arguably have more movement then the rubber bush does.
Shift lever pin wear:Although the idea behind these is a good one, the problem with their design I found is that the spherical bearing part tends to stiffen up, as happened with 2 different sets I tried (from different manufacturers) When that happens you get it's steel center rotating on the steel pin of the shift lever (steel on steel ) - not good for wear. I discovered this when I checked the installation after they were only fitted for a very short time in both cases, and it was not noticeable at the gear lever. The SW20 shift lever design is a compromise especially with the lower shift lever where the cable tends to flex, so I suspect Toyota got it about right with the stock rubber bushes. They have the necessary flex and the brass center won't wear the shift lever pin. Solid brass bushes in the lower cable end of course will shorten the cable life
|
Peter
Supporter
- Total Posts : 177
- Scores: 27
- Reward points: 6141
- Joined: 2012/07/18 22:44:46
- Location: Perth, W.A.
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/27 10:34:08
(permalink)
Hi All,
I have been following this post with interest. I have Delta-V sphericals, & like them.
I asked a while ago as to what people were lubricating them with & no-one responded.
At every oil change I have been spraying all of the moving bits of the shift linkages with a Teflon spray lubricant & mine are quite loose.
I very much respect Redtarga's knowledge & experience, & think that I might have to have a close look at the lower cable flex & consider putting an OEM bush back there.
|
tiff_lee
MR2 Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 103
- Scores: 3
- Reward points: 3861
- Joined: 2015/05/02 14:29:58
- Location: Perth WA
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/27 15:04:13
(permalink)
Reddtarga
tiff_lee
Reddtarga
A solid brass bush should be fine for the top cable end, to take out some slack in the feel at the gear lever.
However because of the shift lever geometry at the transmission end, the lower cable is the one that does all the flexing (and is also the one that tends to break) so I believe the stock rubber bush is the best option there.
I would not recommend fitting spherical bearings.
Why would you not recommend the use of spherical bearings? they arguably have more movement then the rubber bush does.
Shift lever pin wear:
Although the idea behind these is a good one, the problem with their design I found is that the spherical bearing part tends to stiffen up, as happened with 2 different sets I tried (from different manufacturers)
When that happens you get it's steel center rotating on the steel pin of the shift lever (steel on steel ) - not good for wear.
I discovered this when I checked the installation after they were only fitted for a very short time in both cases, and it was not noticeable at the gear lever.
The SW20 shift lever design is a compromise especially with the lower shift lever where the cable tends to flex, so I suspect Toyota got it about right with the stock rubber bushes. They have the necessary flex and the brass center won't wear the shift lever pin. Solid brass bushes in the lower cable end of course will shorten the cable life
While I can't speak for the reliability of the spherical bearings you used how is the steel centre of them on the gear shift pin any different from the steel centre of the rubber bush?
|
kameleon
Supporter
- Total Posts : 2733
- Scores: 106
- Reward points: 6018
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: melbourne vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 00:27:10
(permalink)
The centre of the factory bush is brass from memory? and elongates exactly as the solid items do.
|
tiff_lee
MR2 Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 103
- Scores: 3
- Reward points: 3861
- Joined: 2015/05/02 14:29:58
- Location: Perth WA
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 00:40:13
(permalink)
kameleon
The centre of the factory bush is brass from memory? and elongates exactly as the solid items do.
I did wonder, I searched for the pictures of my old ones but couldnt find them and the ones I saw online looked like steel but may of well been brass then.
|
P E T E
MR2 Aficionado
- Total Posts : 275
- Scores: 10
- Reward points: 4436
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Perth WA Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 10:04:11
(permalink)
I can confirm that yes, the OEM have a brass inner tube. Well mine did on a Rev 2 3SGTE.
|
Carmikey
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 1969
- Scores: 260
- Reward points: 6437
- Joined: 2012/04/23 15:31:23
- Location: Greenwith 5125, S.A. Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 10:30:10
(permalink)
P E T E
I can confirm that yes, the OEM have a brass inner tube. Well mine did on a Rev 2 3SGTE.
Ditto - mine does too Rev 3 3SGTE.
|
petmr2
MR2 Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 142
- Scores: 2
- Reward points: 493
- Joined: 2015/10/06 12:30:43
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 10:57:53
(permalink)
So what does that mean? brass is good or bad? Either way it looks like I'll probably give the spherical bearings a go... and I need to find someone to fix the snapped bolt for the shift bearing bracket. Changing from 1st to 2nd is a bit of an effort and really slows down shifting time
post edited by petmr2 - 2015/10/28 11:14:25
|
petmr2
MR2 Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 142
- Scores: 2
- Reward points: 493
- Joined: 2015/10/06 12:30:43
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 13:54:24
(permalink)
I'm just trying to remember what it looks like but from memory when I was under the car (hoist) the mechanic showed me the bracket for the shift linkage bearing and it was sitting above the front engine mounts... I'm looking at pics on the net and it just looks different for some reason... http://mr2wiki.com/uploads/AllModels/shift-bearing-ls.jpg
|
Reddtarga
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 2175
- Scores: 249
- Reward points: 5547
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 15:14:42
(permalink)
|
Peter
Supporter
- Total Posts : 177
- Scores: 27
- Reward points: 6141
- Joined: 2012/07/18 22:44:46
- Location: Perth, W.A.
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 16:32:59
(permalink)
Hi petmr2,
Your pic & Redtarga's diagrams are showing the same thing.
Pics are difficult to see things properly because there is other stuff in the way, plus the photo is taken from below.
Until you are able to secure the bellcrank support bracket, I don't reckon there is any point in doing anything with the bushes.
|
Reddtarga
MR2 Deity
- Total Posts : 2175
- Scores: 249
- Reward points: 5547
- Joined: 2011/04/07 19:51:15
- Location: Vic Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 17:47:01
(permalink)
+1
If we are talking about the bell crank support bracket (33608 on the diagram) and it is loose, fix that first otherwise you are wasting your time worrying about cable end bushes.
The support bracket is held on by 2 bolts (10mm X 1.25, 20mm long) screwed into the top of the transmission.
On the NA model you will need to remove the intake stuff and loosen or maybe remove the starter motor to access them.
Not sure about turbos.
|
petmr2
MR2 Enthusiast
- Total Posts : 142
- Scores: 2
- Reward points: 493
- Joined: 2015/10/06 12:30:43
- Status: offline
Re: Solid brass shift bushing, should I install?
2015/10/28 19:25:11
(permalink)
thanks guys... yeah that's on my priority list to fix... It's really annoying me so will get it addressed soon
|