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Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue

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sussdub
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2015/01/13 18:02:38 (permalink)
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Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue

After swapping half cut running gear (ecu, gearbox, body wiring harness, dash wiring harness etc) from a 94 gen 3 3sgte I received with a half cut into my 1990 jdm n/a shell I have run into two main issues I cannot explain.
 
I must mention that the running gear minus the body harness and dash wiring harness have all been previously running in a previous sdub of mine so I know everything is in working order.
 
I recieved a gen 3 electronic cluster with the swap, and the car starts over all check lights work however the gauges do not.
. Unfortunately, a few of the body harness plugs were damaged so I had a go of colour matching and re-soldering plugs on from spare harness. I initially thought this might be the cause of both issues so I recently purchased another gen 3 3sgte body harness. I noticed the fuel pack resistor was different in the new purchase (2 slim ones as opposed to one thick one) otherwise everything was a match.
 
After swapping in the new body harness, I still get the same issues:
 
1. Starts idles and dies within a few seconds.
2. Cluster gets power but gauges not working.
 
When doing the paper clip test bypassing the fuel pump relay the car runs fine however the cluster still does not work.
Forgive me for sounding stupid but can I figure out each wire in the body and front dash wiring harness by referring to the wiring diagrams i.e. bgb?
 
Was hoping for an issue that may be causing both problems as I would have a greater piece of mind knowing all the wiring was from the same car/year model.
 
If need be I still have my n/a gen 3 adm harness with a bosch fuel pump relay (6 pin) which I can connect up however I'm not too sure which pin should go where.
 
I apologize if anything is unclear, please pm if there is anything I missed out.
Thanks in advance,
Abs
post edited by Abs - 2015/01/21 21:35:39
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6 Replies Related Threads

    DVS_MR2
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    Re: Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue 2015/01/13 18:40:54 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Pm sent
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    sussdub
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    Re: Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue 2015/01/24 14:10:50 (permalink)
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    Update :
     
    Same issues: 94 jdm turbo engine harness, 94 jdm turbo body harness, 94 jdm turbo dash cluster harness, 90 gen 1 jdm n/a frunk wiring harness, gen 3 ecu
     
    After doing some more research on US forums, I came across the below :
     
     Originally Posted by MR2Fanatic 
    Personally, its a pain in the neck to use the gen3 body harness. You have to rewire a couple items up at the driver side kick panel. If you send us your gen3 engine harness and $250, we make it PLUG AND PLAY for your 93 NA chassis and body harness.


    Its like 4 wires (fuel pump, speedometer, maybe some speaker crap, ...) ... I personally think its not that bad. It would be a good way to get your feet wet doing some wiring too if you've never done any. It took me maybe 6 hours or so including removing and installing the harness, researching, etc.
     
    So right now, this seems to probably be my issue as the fuel pump and speedometer are not working.
    Has anybody come across this before? Not too sure if it's only with the USDM 5SFE or it will apply to my current situation.
     
    If so, would anybody happen to have a guide or be able to explain to me what is necessary, I have pretty basic electronic skills trying to learn as I go. Basically most places say if you have the body harness a nd engine harness it is 99.9% PnP, however can't seem to find details on the .1%.
     
    Any help would be greatly appreciated,
     
    Thanks in advance,
    Abs
     
     
     
     
    #3

    Deco
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    Re: Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue 2015/01/25 16:22:45 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I had the same issue when I did my NA to turbo conversion. I fixed it by getting rid of the fuel pump relay and spliced the FC wire (green/red) into the back of the Circuit Opening Relay as this is how the NAs run the fuel pump. This allows the pump to run at full capacity all the time. 

    1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)


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    sussdub
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    Re: Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue 2015/01/26 22:00:32 (permalink)
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    Deco
    I had the same issue when I did my NA to turbo conversion. I fixed it by getting rid of the fuel pump relay and spliced the FC wire (green/red) into the back of the Circuit Opening Relay as this is how the NAs run the fuel pump. This allows the pump to run at full capacity all the time. 


    Hi Deco,
     
    The thing that has me stumped is the body harness is out of a gen 3 turbo and so is the dash wiring harness, so basically no n/a wiring besides the frunk harness and components. 
     
    I looked into bypassing the relay however I have a feeling that both issues are perhaps related. If worse comes to worse I don't mind bypassing the relay, and then look to sort the speedo issue later, however it would be more convenient for me to get any wiring related things sorted while I have the harnesses out and accessible.
     
    The body harness previously had a few plugs up at the front kick panel demolished by my then teething puppy, so I used plugs from the n/a harness and pinned and soldered three plugs, basically going off the colors. I then thought I could have made an error, so I purchased another gen 3 turbo body harness, however the same symptoms persisted.
     
    I now have the body harness and fuse box out and will do the fuel pump relay bypass mod as you have described.
    So basically you splice into the FC just before the ecu, then again under the circuit open relay (both green and red) then you disconnect the relay itself from the plug and remove?
     
    I'm not too great at reading wiring diagrams so bare with me and correct me if i am wrong.
    would running the SPD (purple/white) wire from the ecu to the circuit open relay as well perhaps give it the power at the right time?
    I don't pull any error codes via paperclip method and when bridging the diagnostic port of the fpr with a wire it runs fine, would it be a better option for me to run a wire from the fuel pump relay to the circuit open relay?
     
    This is my second swap, my Dad and I swapped this gen 3 engine and turbo conversion into my late 1995 aus delivered gt, which we retained the n/a body loom. Didn't have the patience so hired and electrician and he basically ran his own fuel pump relay with 6 pins, 2 wired from the engine harness, 1 from the circuit open relay and a ground. My n/a cluster worked fine however the turbo cluster that came with the clip did not. Currently both clusters get power all warning lights and signals work however the speed and rpm do not seem to be.
     
    My current train of thought is somewhere from the ecu to the kick panel the speed signal and fpr or circuit open relay wires are not meeting up right? Hoping it's just a case of wrong pin here or there, trying to pin point where is im currently at.
    #5
    Deco
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    Re: Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue 2015/01/27 19:31:24 (permalink)
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    sussdub
     
    I now have the body harness and fuse box out and will do the fuel pump relay bypass mod as you have described.
    So basically you splice into the FC just before the ecu, then again under the circuit open relay (both green and red) then you disconnect the relay itself from the plug and remove?

    Correct. Basically use as much of the original wire as possible or if you have a spare loom, cut out the length you need, re-pin it into the ECU plug and then run it through the firewall and splice it into the COR. Note: put a spade connect somewhere in the wire (closer to the ECU the better) as you will need to be able to disconnect it if you want to drop your engine.  
     
     
    sussdub
    I'm not too great at reading wiring diagrams so bare with me and correct me if i am wrong.
    would running the SPD (purple/white) wire from the ecu to the circuit open relay as well perhaps give it the power at the right time?

    Hooking up the SPD wire to the COR wouldnt do anything as the COR is found on the EFI circuit and it is a very basic system only catering to the fuel pump, injectors, oxygen sensor, EGT etc. If you have an electronically driven speedo; the sensor in the gearbox creates electrical pulses and sends these through to your speedo where it will pick it up and translated it into what you see on your speedo. Then a wire goes from there to your ECU relaying the information which is your SPD wire. So there is a couple areas where the problem could lie. Firstly it could be as simple as unmatched wiring at the ECU/Kick panel. Secondly it could be the multiple chips in the cluster itself that could have given up the ghost (unlikely in my opinion) and lastly it could be the speedo sensor in the gearbox may be shot. I would check all your wiring first and then the speedo sensor if that isnt it. 
     
    sussdub
     I don't pull any error codes via paperclip method and when bridging the diagnostic port of the fpr with a wire it runs fine, would it be a better option for me to run a wire from the fuel pump relay to the circuit open relay?

    Running a wiring from the relay itself may not work entirely as the whole point of the relay is that it has two speeds. One for a Idle and low amounts of power and full bore for when youre giving the engine some grief. You could run a wire from the relay but unless that wire is switched all the time; you arent going to have power there reliably. 

     
    sussdub
    My n/a cluster worked fine however the turbo cluster that came with the clip did not. Currently both clusters get power all warning lights and signals work however the speed and rpm do not seem to be.

     Check all the areas I mentioned above for the speedo. As for the tacho, I currently have this issue in my 1990 SW that has a Gen 3 3SGE. Supposedly the rpm signal comes from the ignitor and this could be where the issue is. I have changed mine out to a new one and the issue remained. My thought lies possibly on the fact that a capacitor that is part of the tacho is not matched to the Gen 3 signal (Im not sure on this yet as I havent had time to mess with it). This has only been an issue with Gen 2 to Gen 3 for me. The Gen 3 to Gen 3 had no hitches. Hopefully someone who is knowledgeable about the differences between Gen 2 and 3 clusters could chime in. 


     
    sussdub
    My current train of thought is somewhere from the ecu to the kick panel the speed signal and fpr or circuit open relay wires are not mezeting up right? Hoping it's just a case of wrong pin here or there, trying to pin point where is im currently at.

    This would be my first port of call. It is mostly likely just a mismatched wire. 

    1994 GT with 96 3SGTE (217rwkw)


    #6

    sussdub
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    Re: Gen 3 3sgte Fuel Pump Relay + Cluster Issue 2015/02/01 20:08:34 (permalink)
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    Made some progress. I tried the splicing the circuit open relay as above to no avail. A bit more research discovered that the fuel pump relay gets 12v through the relay and resistor in start mode, then is dependent on the tachometric signal to keep running, if the ecu does not find this, it will cut power to the fp.

    I tried bypassing the resistor to no avail, which confirms it must be to do with the speed sender.

    Currently am in the process of stripping engine wiring harness as it seems the electrician did some splicing for the gen 3 na body harness to work.

    Will try and trace back to the speed sender and see what's going on.
    #7
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