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SteveWOates
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2014/08/14 23:21:11 (permalink)
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High Compression N/A

I've been looking around quite a bit, but I suck at the search function here at the moment -_-.
I was just wondering if anyone has a documented High Compression N/A build to see exactly how it has come along, because I do love the power delivery of an N/A, due to the way the Mr2 drives I feel like a turbo may be a way of getting myself in trouble, and I don't want that.
I'm talking cams/pistons/balanced crank/ported head etc. Most of the work myself and a few friends can do, I would just appreciate an example of how something along these lines turned out before I start, and either way, I'll be documenting the entire process over however long it takes me(and I am in no rush) in great detail.
I'll be buying a second engine for this, and it will be on the bench until ready to go in, and I'd definately be doing a before and after Dyno just to see what type of difference I can make.
On that note, anyone have an approximate price on an NA 3S nowadays? Doesn't matter if it's not in great condition as it would be getting a complete rebuild. Intending to buy engine probably January~ish.

Any opinions anyone has will be appreciated, whether it is constructive or not.
Thanks in advance if anyone can direct me towards good examples.
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    just_ace
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 01:40:12 (permalink)
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    beams swap time.
    #2
    asimovy
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 07:38:20 (permalink)
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    Yep I'd go beams or V6 if you want NA power.
     
    Gorilla Industies does have a gen 2 motor with 272 degree cams, adjustable cam gears and a power fc.
    http://www.mr2australia.c./mr2play/tm.aspx?m=99753


     
    #3

    Eric
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 11:44:12 (permalink)
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    I agree with the above. beams for the high revving 4 cylinder or go 2GR for that big power NA.

    You will spend nearly the same amount building up a normal 3SGE
    #4
    Dudeman
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 12:19:28 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    There was a young bloke on the forum, from brisbane I think - he spent a massive amount of money to build up a 'mega high compression ground breaking turbo killer'.
     
    It was a fairly detailed thread. When it came time to install it, it failed big time.
     
    From memory the thread ended with threats of legal action to the engine builder, nasty words, then the thread was deleted by the OP.
     
    The only things that ended up broken were the young dudes wallet, and spirit I guess. Pretty sure he left the scene altogether.
     
    So, in joining the chorus, turbo, beams (never driven one but those that have swear by them) 2GR (if you have the wallet) or 1MZ. I was already to put a 1MZ in that car that you have now but I got myself a hardtop turbo instead.
     
    Alex90GT installed the 1MZ into his car, he seems pretty happy with it and hopefully will post up some pics of his own soon!
     
    1MZ has nice torque delivered quite predictably. It's made to drag a decent sized four door car around, let it push a small two door around and give it a good exhaust...
     
     
     

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    #5
    just_ace
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 13:02:44 (permalink)
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    it was senol. but the experience he had was the engine builders fault, it has also happened to those building turbo motors.

    but, yeh cheaper and easier to fit std redtop beams for extra 40hp and much better power/torque delivery over a gen2 .
    #6

    B24
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 13:04:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Terranigma 2014/08/15 13:22:32
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    Good to see another person having a go at the NA 2 litre.
    Do you have a budget for the whole build? What is it?
    Do you have a power figure in mind?
    Are you planning on custom intake and exhaust to suit your application?
    Can I share some knowledge with you from what I have learnt the last few years?
     
    Define exactly what you are doing with the car. If its a track car, don't fuss too much about big power but more on torque and drivability off the corner. Far more important than a peaky low torque NA in a 1100- 1200kg MR2.
    Do not just buy cams/manifolds/exhausts then bolt it on and expect some magical figure.
    You need to build it so everything is tuned before you even start the engine.
    For head preparation, have a look at this site for flow figure and a some other interesting info.
    http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm
    Before you port the head have it flowed or use the info on this site for stock flow rates.
    On the site you will see the % ratio for in verse out. Work on having your head the same or similar to kelford cams results.
    Then have the head flowed, then fill out this form so kelford can sort out the right cam for you.
    https://www.capella.co.nz/sites/kelford.co.nz/design-shop/
    Then call the guys to help with correct length runners for in and ex.
    That's enough to maximise your basics of the build.
     
    Engine to use?
    Buy a Beams blacktop with dual vvti or a 2AR/2AZ(2.4). The 2AR is a vvti but alloy engine so their is a great weight saving. Either of these will see well over 110hp per litre if done correctly.
    Don't bother with a Gen 2 or Gen 3 as the vvti is a big plus.
     
    Sorry if I was explaining what you already know.
     
     
     
     
     
    #7
    asimovy
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 13:13:22 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I don't think a blacktop beams will fit in an mr2 without changing a whole lot of parts.
     
    The sump is setup for a rwd car and cam gears will hit the strut tower.
     
    The one you want is a redtop beams.


     
    #8
    SteveWOates
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 13:25:02 (permalink)
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    The intention was to do it with a 3s but I am open to other suggestions.
    The v6 conversion people are talking about, anyone who has one already able to let me know if it is ridiculously difficult to work on the car without dropping the engine out after the conversion is done? That would have been one of my bigger issues.
    #9
    rikkir
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 13:51:08 (permalink)
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    Redtop Beams...
    #10
    Knightrous
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 14:57:12 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    SteveWOates
    The intention was to do it with a 3s but I am open to other suggestions.
    The v6 conversion people are talking about, anyone who has one already able to let me know if it is ridiculously difficult to work on the car without dropping the engine out after the conversion is done? That would have been one of my bigger issues.



    I'm in mid stream of putting a 1MZFE into my AW11.
    From my current experiences, there is more room to work in the engine bay since everything is either on top of the motor or underneath it, and you soon learn what you work on from the top and what you work on from the bottom.  The main exception is the spark plugs, which are hard to access on the front bank due to the cabin firewall, but you can rotate the motor by undoing the torque mounts. My 4AGE 20V motor that was previously in the engine bay was a bit frustrating at times since it was hard to get my hand in between parts to get half way down to block or head to reach another bolt.
     
    The upper intake manifold on a 1MZ is held on with 4 easily accessible bolts, so it's pretty quick to access anything below it. (Try removing the intake on a 4A/3S in less then 5 mins.................)


    #11
    SteveWOates
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 19:26:21 (permalink)
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    Useful picture.
    Main thing I am thinking of with trouble is the stuff I'd do regularly. I don't like using mechanics unless I need to, and I rather enjoy doing my own work.
    If everything is easy enough to access that isn't useless to do withing 25000K's I would be taking quite a bit of interest considering it's a fair bit cheaper.
    Also, do you need to do any fabricating for the 1mz conversion?
    #12
    Eric
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 20:02:55 (permalink)
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    You can buy the engine mount you need pre made. Then you just need an exhaust system made up
    #13
    SteveWOates
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 20:05:33 (permalink)
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    Just took into account the engineering certificate would be needed also. Also I would want to keep the twin exhaust. Want it to be looking stock on the outside. Can you make up an exhaust for that?
    #14
    SteveWOates
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    Re: High Compression N/A 2014/08/15 20:36:14 (permalink)
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    What is a cost for a beams red top on average if anyone knows? Reading lots more on mentioned and further looked into other engines also and the red top looks like a power output I could slightly increase and sit on very happily to be honest.
    #15
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