B24
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I spoke with Justin. Stated it as being petty and for you to focus on something useful as this is not useful or justified. The engine has 4 cam sensors/crank sensor/2 knock sensors/6 EGT sensors/2 O2 sensors/injector sensors/air temps/intake temps and many other things which monitor everything needed by a advanced ECU system. He is aware of your point regarding the one in the pipe could not be fitted any other way due to the angle of the exhaust tip and its really not the key point of the system. I understand you are trying to be helpful but I don't believe this mountain of a mole hill is helpful.
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kojab
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Placement of a wideband bung should have been thought about at the time of the exhaust design. Why was it not fitted? Can't blame the tuner here. Measurement of correct wideband A/f ratios are vital for your engine. You don't have any true readings. How will you get accurate A/F reading in the future when more aggressive tuning takes place? Personally I would not tune a high performance engine without a wideband bung welded in. I am trying to give you good advice. Think about where you can fit a bung on your exhaust. Do it right
92' SW20 3SGTE GEN2 GT Hardtop Holden Ls1 ECU 87' AW11 3SGTE Delco EFI ECU & 21 psi boost 71' KE25 3TGTE Delco EFI ECU Standard engine 24 psi boost 78' KE55 L67 Delco EFI ECU
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B24
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Richard you are assuming what I have then telling me I have it wrong. Seriously mate you are way off track. The last post states I have 2 O2 sensors. These two are at the exit of the three into one collectors. One in each side. How clear do I have to make it? It also has a EGT in each exhaust 100mm from the exit of the cylinder head. All these are run through CAN enable thermocouplers. I don't care what your problem is so don't bring it here.
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kojab
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I am really hoping that this unnecessary tension between the two of is simply a technical miss understanding of technical terms. Your so called"2 O2 sensors" to me are what I and most people would refer to as standard oxygen sensors (they cannot measure A/F ratios), and not wideband sensors. There is a big difference. If you have TRUE wideband sensors at the exit of the three into one collectors then you would not need to sample A/F ratios at the tail pipe. Question is why are you sampling A/F ratios at the tailpipe? To simplfy my question. Are your "2 O2" sensors Wideband sensors?
92' SW20 3SGTE GEN2 GT Hardtop Holden Ls1 ECU 87' AW11 3SGTE Delco EFI ECU & 21 psi boost 71' KE25 3TGTE Delco EFI ECU Standard engine 24 psi boost 78' KE55 L67 Delco EFI ECU
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MCT_MR2
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Kojab, he has 2 wideband sensors. I would assume the tuner, like when cars are tuned at my shop, has used his sensor up the tailpipe, to correlate and confirm the readings he is reading from the onboad wideband.
Furthermore, the sensor is mounted at 12 o clock on a lobster tailpipe, there will be little to no exhaust gas anywhere near the back of the sensor.
I also know that Steve has consulted several tuners in regards to tuning methods and how to achieve a sucessful and reliable outcome.
He has a lsu 4.2 wideband in each collector for bank to bank mixtures, he has individual cylinder egts, which will be equal distance from exhaust ports of each cylinder
A lot of tuners will also leave a tailpipe wideband reading just for their own reference on the dyno files, as some dynos cannot log a dataset from aftermarket ecus, let alone obd.
I think the hostility you were met with was more on your overly critical input.
'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258 224.6KW @ 20PSI more to come......
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track_mr2
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This is funny to read but anyway in my personal experience and from what I know B24 has nothing to worry about. It's a v6 engine and he has two O2 sensor bungs from the sound of it at the end of each exhaust header, which is a great place to have them from what I know. For my 6 throttle body 260z with a straight 6, I had a single bung at the end of my headers and this is where they plugged in a wide band O2 sensor to do the tuning. I didn't run a wideband permanently in the car, turner only ran it when tuning. My car ran without issues. They explained the reason they run it there and the reason one in the tail pipe is basically useless is because too much outside oxygen interferes with the reading from the tailpipe sensors on exhaust pulse, so as far up the exhaust system is better, plus the hotter the better. Also I don't understand why anyone building a race car engine would fit a non-wideband sensor in the exhaust let alone two? Who cares about fuel saving at idle and cruise speed in a race car? Seriously, it would make no sense for it to be a non-wideband. I understand if it was a factory engine modified, because who bothers removing it but a custom race engine, really?? 268RWKW in a NA MR2 sounds like plenty for track day fun, hardly going to tune it to an inch of its life to win a $20 trophy if that, just some good reliable power hopefully.
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kojab
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MCT_MR2 thanks for coming in a clarifying steve has wideband sensors installed. I am relieved to here this. I was concerned knowing and remembering all the previous bad luck stories that steve has experienced. Viewing the recent dyno clip set alarm bells ringing for me and I only had fears steve was in the wrong workshop again. Looking forward to seeing some good lap times.
92' SW20 3SGTE GEN2 GT Hardtop Holden Ls1 ECU 87' AW11 3SGTE Delco EFI ECU & 21 psi boost 71' KE25 3TGTE Delco EFI ECU Standard engine 24 psi boost 78' KE55 L67 Delco EFI ECU
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B24
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No worries Richard. Neil spent time with me at Wakefield on Tuesday. We will be spending a day or two at the track sorting out the finer points of the tune. Will be data logging laps then working on it between sessions.
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kojab
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Yes tuning it at the track is the best scenario to get the tune spot on, far superior than any dyno and safer for the engine too. That's my opinion anyway and I have been tuning this way for last 30 years. Now retired. What was your best lap time at Wakefield with the current tune?
92' SW20 3SGTE GEN2 GT Hardtop Holden Ls1 ECU 87' AW11 3SGTE Delco EFI ECU & 21 psi boost 71' KE25 3TGTE Delco EFI ECU Standard engine 24 psi boost 78' KE55 L67 Delco EFI ECU
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B24
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kojab Yes tuning it at the track is the best scenario to get the tune spot on, far superior than any dyno and safer for the engine too. That's my opinion anyway and I have been tuning this way for last 30 years. Now retired. What was your best lap time at Wakefield with the current tune?
I expected to have the car run in then tuned to the point that it can be taken to the track for more development. Always had Neil in mind for this part of it. It did a 1:07.7 which is a good start. There is more time in it as it has no real development, brake bias was badly out, tyres old and worn, me fresh in the car. Aiming for 1:05's by late next year.
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B24
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Nick
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Steve, yours is an unopened engine right? All mods were exterior?
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B24
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Nick Steve, yours is an unopened engine right? All mods were exterior? [/quote/] No, it is as a new fully built engine. There is information on the build in this thread.
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kojab
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B24 I expected to have the car run in then tuned to the point that it can be taken to the track for more development. Always had Neil in mind for this part of it. It did a 1:07.7 which is a good start. There is more time in it as it has no real development, brake bias was badly out, tyres old and worn, me fresh in the car. Aiming for 1:05's by late next year.
If that's Motec Neil then you have no worries getting the tune right. I would say 1:07.7 is a great start.
92' SW20 3SGTE GEN2 GT Hardtop Holden Ls1 ECU 87' AW11 3SGTE Delco EFI ECU & 21 psi boost 71' KE25 3TGTE Delco EFI ECU Standard engine 24 psi boost 78' KE55 L67 Delco EFI ECU
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B24
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Yes it is Neil Trama who I have been in association with since 2002. The same guy who I invited to MTC who you and Rob spent time with at the bbq.
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