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AnsweredSW20 2GR Track car

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B24
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2013/12/22 18:07:34 (permalink)
+1 (1)
I just finished talking with one of the Victorian guys. I will have a head up here in a few days. Looks like it will be ready.
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/01/03 19:42:29 (permalink)
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B24
I picked it up via 'gumtree'. Just a fluke really. Cost about $180
The wing stays were made up by a local engineer then fitted by myself. Took about two beers to complete.

 
I picked mine up for $50 FTW

Mr Glengineering.
Please visit my other forums - 
www.celica.org.au
www.classic-ford.org
 
 
My build thread - https://www.mr2australia..m/mr2play/FindPost/47893
B24
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/01/29 10:14:37 (permalink)
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B24
I picked it up via 'gumtree'. Just a fluke really. Cost about $180
The wing stays were made up by a local engineer then fitted by myself. Took about two beers to complete.

 
I picked mine up for $50 FTW


The rear wing was $180! Not the wing stays.

B24
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/01/29 10:27:33 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Dudeman 2014/01/29 11:14:16
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After working with the 3SGTE for a few years I am now gearing up for a 2GR-FE conversion. I picked up the kit and engine for a fair price from RoryM so a lot of the hassle is done.
There are a few conversions out there but no serious tuning, modifying of the engines out there. This one will different.
I will show the conversion step by step for people thinking of going down the same path. It will also show the development a standard 2GR-FE into something which is inline with my car. It will a NA engine not boosted.
After discussing the subject with a few people from around the country and NZ, the standard engine and ECU will produce about 180rwkw and plenty of ability to slingshot the car out of any corner in just about any gear.
Some people have tried the aftermarket tuning option using Adaptronic,Wolf and Motec with results of 187-215 rwkw with a stock engine but the higher powered units may not have cat's.
I see the benchmark for the 2GR (IMHO) is the Nissan VQ35 as its similar in many ways but has the advantage of aftermarket cams and throttle bodies available off the shelf. These units are managing 290kw with cams, porting and ecu without too much fuss. There are some people pushing the engine to reach 380kw but they do not last all that long.
My goal? 230rwkw is a ballpark figure but number one is to have the conversion completed by June/July. Compression will be very close to stock with focus on porting, intake modifications, cams, ecu.
 
The engine 3sgte will be out next week then inspected, reassembled and sold off to fund the exercise.
So if you are after a 3SGTE built engine which can handle anything which is not even properly run in at 40% off the cost of a new one, drop a line.
 
 
 
 
 
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/01/30 14:16:56 (permalink)
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the headers and y pipe fitted to the 2GR is one of the bottle necks, as is the plastic plenum with the variable runner setup. another thing to note is that the earlier 2GR motors had issues with ovaling the bores, leading to loss of comp and burning oil. Some of the earlier ones also had issues with the vvti cam gears flogging out.

'88 MR2 4AGTE W/ EFR6258

224.6KW @ 20PSI

more to come......
B24
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/01 23:03:12 (permalink)
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MCT_MR2
the headers and y pipe fitted to the 2GR is one of the bottle necks, as is the plastic plenum with the variable runner setup. another thing to note is that the earlier 2GR motors had issues with ovaling the bores, leading to loss of comp and burning oil. Some of the earlier ones also had issues with the vvti cam gears flogging out.



Thanks for the info.
The Gouky kit (which came with the package) has stainless extractors with 3-1 which then exits at 2.5. After that, is yet to be decided. Need to get the engine built and installed before hand.
I measured the Extractors which have a 40mm barrel and the heads have a 34mm outlet. So it looks like the ports can be modified. As for the inlet runners, I'm looking at itb's. Trav mentioned some of the Toyota engines have 48mm throttle bodies and are cheap so I'm aiming at running these with a big plenum. This should help free up the engine and help with power.
 
 
 

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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/02 12:38:17 (permalink)
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I ran 6 48mm ITB's on a 3.1litre stroked L series engine. You need to be quiet careful around the throttle body design and sizing as I used speed technology/efi hardware equipment with is quiet pricey however they run taffer bores etc...that create more power. Also and more importantly each throttle body had its own throttle stop as the twisting in the steel shaft is enough to through the idle out of balance. They are very sensitive I even had to change linkages to spherical ball type as the play in the cheaper linkages were also enough to through the sync out. I had to also run a custom main linkage that ramped at 40% initially before full to make the car perfectly drivable otherwise I wouldn't get enough throttle control. ITB's can be quiet fiddly to get right.
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/02 19:40:37 (permalink)
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The above are good points and that is why i talked Steve into using stock style throttles for ease of use (linkages that work out of the box for instance) this will give him less headaches and we all know Steve has had so many headaches i am suprised his head has not yet exploded :)
 
I know how much of a ba$tard it was to set up some EFI hardware gear on a BMW 6 cylinder...... The products are quality items though.
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/02 22:24:02 (permalink)
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Can't wait to see how this turns out! I want to put a 2GR in my 2 and I've always wondered why most people leave them near stock. Have you considered boring the cylinders? You need a sleeve kit and the capacity can be increased from 3.45L to 3.68L
 
Try contacting the guys at Monkey Wrench Racing, they've got alot of experience with the 2GR and should be able to give you a good indication of how much power you'd gain from port work etc.
 
Here's a link to the sleeve kit - http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=318&products_id=1586 
and the 2GR specific page - http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/index.php?cPath=318 
 
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/03 08:26:29 (permalink)
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kameleon
The above are good points and that is why i talked Steve into using stock style throttles for ease of use (linkages that work out of the box for instance) this will give him less headaches and we all know Steve has had so many headaches i am suprised his head has not yet exploded :)
 
I know how much of a ba$tard it was to set up some EFI hardware gear on a BMW 6 cylinder...... The products are quality items though.



I really don't know how using stock style throttle bodies on a  ITB setup would work. Are they cable driven? Most factory throttle bodies are cable driven, so you would need to run a the main cable system to some kind of winch system to pull the throttles open?
One of the throttle bodies would need to have the TPS mounted on it where the others wont.
If you are leaving the injectors in the origional factory location and just getting ITB that are basically a buterfly, there are a lot of cheap custom made options for billet buterflys. They have individual throttle stops and are very compact, also have mounts for ram tubes. The EFI Hardware stuff has the injector tube moulded in as they are usually used for webber carb to EFI conversions, thats why they are pricey. Also mounting the injectors as far from the cylinders as possible gives better atomisation and gives better power.
 
Dudeman
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/03 08:35:07 (permalink)
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Steve_A
I've always wondered why most people leave them near stock. 



 
Just big, fat, reliable torque i'd guess.

.
.
 
       
B24
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/03 09:25:29 (permalink)
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track_mr2
I ran 6 48mm ITB's on a 3.1litre stroked L series engine. You need to be quiet careful around the throttle body design and sizing as I used speed technology/efi hardware equipment with is quiet pricey however they run taffer bores etc...that create more power. Also and more importantly each throttle body had its own throttle stop as the twisting in the steel shaft is enough to through the idle out of balance. They are very sensitive I even had to change linkages to spherical ball type as the play in the cheaper linkages were also enough to through the sync out. I had to also run a custom main linkage that ramped at 40% initially before full to make the car perfectly drivable otherwise I wouldn't get enough throttle control. ITB's can be quiet fiddly to get right.


Thanks for the info. Do you have any data on the itb's against the standard manifold. Its ok that's its a different engine but more interested in characteristics of the change.
Was it used on a street car or circuit car?
Did they shift the throttle bodies up the manifold to suit a particular cam or application or where they simply fitted close to the inlet for streetable driving?
 
B24
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/03 09:35:10 (permalink)
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Steve_A
Can't wait to see how this turns out! I want to put a 2GR in my 2 and I've always wondered why most people leave them near stock. Have you considered boring the cylinders? You need a sleeve kit and the capacity can be increased from 3.45L to 3.68L
 
Try contacting the guys at Monkey Wrench Racing, they've got alot of experience with the 2GR and should be able to give you a good indication of how much power you'd gain from port work etc.
 
Here's a link to the sleeve kit - http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=318&products_id=1586 
and the 2GR specific page - http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/index.php?cPath=318 
 


Steve_A
Can't wait to see how this turns out! I want to put a 2GR in my 2 and I've always wondered why most people leave them near stock. Have you considered boring the cylinders? You need a sleeve kit and the capacity can be increased from 3.45L to 3.68L
 
Try contacting the guys at Monkey Wrench Racing, they've got alot of experience with the 2GR and should be able to give you a good indication of how much power you'd gain from port work etc.
 
Here's a link to the sleeve kit - http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=318&products_id=1586 
and the 2GR specific page - http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/index.php?cPath=318 
 



Hello Steve,
I will not be going down the path of oversizing the bore as its a expense I'm not interested in due to the cost of playing with the turbo for the last few years. You don't really need to update the bottom end as the standard bottom end is a proven package if you intend to stay below 11:1 compression and 7500rpm. This is where I will be running so it will be rebuild but with standard internals. The cost of sleeves/piston/rods and install is 5k which I am not interested in spending for not a lot of gain. The car will be under 1100kg with fuel and driver so I can for go the 20kw gain of the overbore with the weight reduction. 
I have seen some tricks on two brutal which will be used. LS main bolts for instance will be used. The clutch master clutch I have in the car is the top end race unit so this will also help with performance. May also try one or two other things with the bottom end but no news on it as yet.
 
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/03 09:36:21 (permalink)
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track_mr2
I really don't know how using stock style throttle bodies on a  ITB setup would work. Are they cable driven? Most factory throttle bodies are cable driven, so you would need to run a the main cable system to some kind of winch system to pull the throttles open?
One of the throttle bodies would need to have the TPS mounted on it where the others wont.
If you are leaving the injectors in the origional factory location and just getting ITB that are basically a buterfly, there are a lot of cheap custom made options for billet buterflys. They have individual throttle stops and are very compact, also have mounts for ram tubes. The EFI Hardware stuff has the injector tube moulded in as they are usually used for webber carb to EFI conversions, thats why they are pricey. Also mounting the injectors as far from the cylinders as possible gives better atomisation and gives better power.



I believe they are talking about the Factory 4AGE 20V Blacktop ITB's which solve all the issues you raise and are commonly used in ITB conversion for many other motors (4AGE 16V, 1UZFE, 3SGE)

 
The 4AGE ITB's can be sourced for $100-$200 a set, which is cheaper then a single individual ITB from EFIHardware.
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RE: SW20 track car back on track 2014/02/03 09:42:29 (permalink)
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kameleon
The above are good points and that is why i talked Steve into using stock style throttles for ease of use (linkages that work out of the box for instance) this will give him less headaches and we all know Steve has had so many headaches i am suprised his head has not yet exploded :)
 
I know how much of a ba$tard it was to set up some EFI hardware gear on a BMW 6 cylinder...... The products are quality items though.


Yes, exactly Trav! Just pulling down the 3SGTE yesterday 'wound me up' with memories of the painful path I went down. Its still not over as it will be inspected and 'more than likely' new rings fitted before assembly and sale of the engine. I was going to but it back in the car after the rebuild then tune and have a drive but decided to simply get it out my hair.
It would be a mad street/trackday engine but not for circuit work.
 
The 2GR will produce great results with the standard manifold with a 1UZ throttle body so this is still and option.
But, the itb's is a great little project. Do the Toyota itb's have the injector fitment on the throttle body?
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