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Car unstable over high speed bumps

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sx_corolla
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2011/01/11 19:01:01 (permalink)
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Car unstable over high speed bumps

Hi everyone,
Wondering if i could get some advice. I recently went on a day trip down to phillip island and found the car to be very sensitive to small bumps/dips on the roads, particularly at 100kms and over. (Also feels unstable/floaty but is fine on city freeways, etc)

It would jolt the car/steering to the point where the car would leave the road without correction.

Any settings that would help stablise the car?

Heres the details of my suspension set up which are relatively new:
* HD yellow Bilsteins
* TRD soft type black springs
* Cusco front + rear strut braces
* Whiteline swaybars front + rear (set on softest) ~ Front sway bar link end threads linking to the sway bar seem to be a little bent?
* Sway bar reinforcement plates
* Poly bushings all round
* Jic tension rods
* Tie rods + ball joints
* 215/40/17 front +35
* 235/40/17 rear +38

Alignment settings - Set by tyre factory:
Front
Camber(L)-0.46 (R)-1.30
Toe (L) +1.00 (R) +1.00
Rear
Camber (L) -2.08 (R) -2.09
Toe (L) +3.3 (R) +2.8mm

Thanks in advance!
#1


17 Replies Related Threads

    surok
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/11 19:07:16 (permalink)
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    your alignment is a bit poor, run zero toe at the front and 1 mm of toe in at the rear, and that should make it more predictable.
    #2
    MuMan
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/12 00:00:25 (permalink)
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    Wouldn't those toe settings make it more unstable?
    #3

    Cubits
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/12 01:29:04 (permalink)
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    Not necessarily, less toe is less reactive to bumps and cambers. It may be at the expense of cornering stability, but those values aren't terribly extreme. I would try alignment settings from the folk over at MR2OC, they seem to be well-vetted and peer reviewed. At least once that is done you will have surefire alignment values, even if it isn't the cure!

    The problem, from your description, appears to mostly be down to bump steer and tramlining. Since your car is riding a little lower than stock, the control arms may need to be re-aligned using RCA's. I noticed you changed the ball joints and tie rod ends, does that mean you already have the RCA's (as they're a common reinforcement item)?
    #4
    kameleon
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/12 09:46:54 (permalink)
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    i think its more a combination of wheel alignment..

    Your lhf camber is way too low compared to the other side and when driving n a straight road will tend to vere to the left due to the natural camber of the road. I would increase this to suit the rhf figure. the toe is fine from a standard wheel alignment type ideology. If you want more turn in reduce that figure to close to zero. The closer you go there the better the turn in but the trade off is it is very darty. I have just past neutral (slight toe out)

    Tram tracking could be just down to your wheel sizes and offsets, its very common.

    You have big camber at the back compared to the front i would back that down or increase the front further and i would be putting the rear toe back down to 1.5 or similar as imo 3.3-2.8 is excessive.

    that should make your car more natural feeling and less darty. Have you checked your wheel bearings and rack ends yet??? very very common.



    your running toe out on the
    #5
    Reddtarga
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/12 10:15:45 (permalink)
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    Not too sure about your alignment settings, but with the Whitelines you could try stiff front but soft rear for better stability.

    But you'll need better links if you go stiffer and your ride will suffer.

    I run close to OEM alignment and my car is lowered about 1 inch with Koni/Eibach suspension.
    I fitted a 20 mm Whiteline front ARB that gave improved turn in without affecting the car's stability and was well worth fitting.
    But that all changed when I also fitted a 20 mm Whiteline on the rear too.
    I first had them both on the softest setting, but the car was unstable with bad tendency wander on bumpy country roads.

    With the adjustable bars, a stiff front and soft rear helped stability but the ride suffered.
    A stiff rear but a soft front made things a lot worse.

    Playing around with different toe, camber etc didn't help.
    I eventually pulled the Whiteline rear off and refitted the OEM 19 mm one while keeping the Whiteline front on the softest setting = instant relief and back where I started.

    In my case anyway fitting a Whiteline 20mm on the rear was a waste of time and money.

    #6

    sx_corolla
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/12 14:00:59 (permalink)
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    Thank for the help guys, really appreciate it.

    Seems like the common theme is wheel alignment and Kam, you are correct, the car has been pulling left after 2 wheel alignments at 2 different places (partly to blame for my ignorance on the topic). I'll read up some more on popular settings in the mean time.

    Wheel bearings + rack ends are fine. Had Ian do a quick check on my last visit not long ago. (Tho my steering rack LHS has a slight leak ~ very minor)

    Anyone know of a good place for wheel alignments in Melb? I tried many with no success. $80 per trial isn't cheap.


    Cubits,
    I didnt even know what an rca's were until i read up on it last night haha. Learn Something new everyday. Been trolling through our forums for discussions. No, i havent upgraded them but this will be the last option. (After wheel alignment + swaybar settings)


    Red Targa,
    Yeah, i found the car to feel very different once the rear sway bar went on too. Tried a few settings for the F+R but found pretty much every setting was too harsh for street. Turning down carpark ramps i found the car couldnt turn as the chassis was too siff haha. I'll change the front again to the middle setting and see how i go.

    Cheers

    #7
    kameleon
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/01/12 14:51:19 (permalink)
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    get some camber bolts (the bolts that run through the struts front and rear come in different sizes to allow you to adjust camber) and take it to any competent shop and i doubt they will have an issue.

    alot of people of late say this shop (insert shop name here) coudln't do a wheel alignment. I find this odd as thats what theyre paid for and they should be the ones letting you know options for getting the car into correct spec etc.

    If you want a place that is not going to f#ck you around and sort it the way you want it contact:- Aklings tyre service 484 city rd South Melbourne (03) 9699 6044

    They do wheel alignments for BMW, Mercedes, Aston Martin yadda yadda, i have never had an issue there in the 10 years we have used them.
    #8
    sx_corolla
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/07 23:23:07 (permalink)
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    Alright, been reading heaps into wheel alignment settings and how they affect the handling.

    Found some pretty good info on our Mr2's if anyone's interested. Food for thought for all the people who just bring their cars in for a generic alignment.

    http://www.torqueracing.com/mr2suspension.php

    http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/Mk2_vs_Mk1.html

    http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25719&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=ce28421ea7eac1bf7d38683d0b72d2f2



    Here's the settings im planning to go for. Any feedback would be great. (Semi aggressive street setup, stable, Moderate tire life, reducing under steer at 90 degree+ turns)

    Front
    Camber(L) -1.50 (R) -1.50
    Toe (L) +0.4 (R) +0.4
    Castor N/A

    Rear
    Camber (L) -1.80 (R) -1.80
    Toe (L) +2.0 (R) +2.0
    Castor N/A


    Unless the imoc.co.uk Dino settings are better (Has received pretty good reviews)

    Cheers
    #9
    kameleon
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/08 00:32:09 (permalink)
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    i wouldn't run more camber at the back then the front. swap those 2 around if anything.

    toe on the rear to me seems excessive.
    #10
    Gecko
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/08 13:31:57 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kameleon

    toe on the rear to me seems excessive.


    Why is that Trav?
    90/91 stock is 5 mm total (2.5mm per side).
    92+ is 4 mm total.

    More rear toe in helps against braking/cornering induced oversteer due to rear bump steer (toe out at the rear under braking and cornering) I have found.

    sx_corolla another thing to check is your engine mounts (front/rear) for wear/tear etc which can give weird handling at higher speeds.
    #11
    MRTurbo
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/08 14:01:56 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Gecko

    quote:
    Originally posted by kameleon

    toe on the rear to me seems excessive.



    sx_corolla another thing to check is your engine mounts (front/rear) for wear/tear etc which can give weird handling at higher speeds.



    Hmmm interesting - I know my engine mounts are sloppy/shot (soon to be Kirkosaurus) so could that explain a floaty kinda feeling in the rear in fast corners and over undulations??
    #12
    surok
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/08 14:15:13 (permalink)
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    i reckon a ctek battery charger will fix your handling problems.
    #13
    sx_corolla
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/08 18:50:04 (permalink)
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    Funny you should mention the engine mounts as that was my next agenda. Going to get that replaced next. One of the mounts is in pretty ordinary condition, possibly even broken. Cheers for mentioning that

    Kam,
    Thanks for your help. I'll adjust the camber as advised. Hope the car will suit my driving haha. Shame i don't have a alignment machine at home.
    #14
    Whore of Babylon
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    RE: Car unstable over high speed bumps 2011/02/09 09:08:14 (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by surok

    i reckon a ctek battery charger will fix your handling problems.


    [88]
    #15
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