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Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe??

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Steve_A
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2014/10/18 01:26:20 (permalink)
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Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe??

Looking to install a manual boost controller and while getting it in and disabling T-VSV is something I can do myself I'm wondering if its safe to do without immediately getting the car retuned?
 
As far as I know (and I don't know much about the turbo game yet) if I was running an AFM then the computer would be able to account for changes in air flow. But AFM has been removed on this car (1991 SW20) and the engine is now mananged by an Apexi Power FC. Am I right to assume that fueling may not be correct for the extra boost earlier in the RPM range that I hope to gain by installing the MBC?
 
The engine has boosted to 17PSI but most of the time hits 13-14PSI and this is well past 4k RPM. I'm not looking to increase Peak boost and I'm thinking 15-16PSI since I still have the stock gen 2 injectors and pump? Main goal of the MBC is to reach peak earlier and hold through as far as possible. The turbo is a high flowed CT26 but as the turbo came with the car I'm not exactly sure whats been done to it.
 
What do you guys think, am I good to do this myself without a tune or should I leave it to the tuner?
#1


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    stuka
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/18 08:08:13 (permalink)
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    Controlled boost is better than uncontrolled boost. High boost and high RPM will be the factor that will melt your engine so set it at a sensible level. 15psi would be a good number to aim for. Boost coming on earlier shouldnt be an issue and it should be early with a small turbo like that. The apexi powerfc works out what it needs to know from pressure and temperature in the inlet. If it were me I would set it at 14psi in the meantime and aim to get a tune soon so you have a baseline to work from and peace of mind
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    Steve_A
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/19 21:09:33 (permalink)
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    Cools thanks for clearing that up! Having done a bit more reading I think I have a better understanding. If I was changing the volumetric efficiency with say different cams, or a new intake/exhaust manifolds then a tune would be a must. Since MBC will just be increasing boost, volumetric efficiency of the engine isn't changed so the fueling tables should still work! Let me know if I'm way off here haha
     
    Hopefully I'll have the MBC sorted before I head to QR for Downshifts Coffee and Cruise :)
    #3

    kojab
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/20 12:58:14 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I have had a chance to get back to tuning my car and thought you might be interested in this Fuel Spectrograph.  It might clear up a few thoughts your having with your own car.
     

     
     

    Firstly, this “Fuel Spectrograph” was developed by my son when he was 12,  I told him then no more playing computer games and do something useful.  We worked together developing tuning tools for 12 years.  He is 32 now and I am still using this tool and yes he is still playing computer games.
     
    The legend on the right with the different colours represent the standard (narrow band) oxygen sensor voltages.  Rpm and kPa are shown on the two axis.  The many coloured dots are collected over a 10 minute spirited drive.
     
    In my case I have set my waste gate control at 210 kpa which is approx a little over 15psi boost.  You can see where waste gate is active in the top section of the spectrograph where the RPM is rising.
     
    What does it all mean:   The same two axis in the spectrograph are the same in our VE tuning table so what we see above is the result of the current tune from adjustments that have made to the VE table within the ecu.
     
     
    The question you asked.  Will it be safe to manually change boost levels at different rpm and boost points.  The answer is unknown.  It will depend if the previous tuner has covered all the plotting points on the VE table with different boost levels.  This is very seldom done as it would be very time consuming.
    You will notice most of the area in the spectrograph is black and therefor never visited.    Keep in mind you can only tune accurately in areas that get visited.    A good tuner will understand the possibility that boost levels may be altered and adjust the VE table to look to what he/she sees fit.
     
     Yes I do log with a wideband sensor as well as the factory oxygen sensor so if anyone is interested I could put up a few more graphs.
     
     
    post edited by kojab - 2014/10/20 13:17:28

    92' SW20 3SGTE   GEN2 GT Hardtop Holden Ls1 ECU
    87' AW11 3SGTE   Delco EFI ECU & 21 psi boost
    71' KE25 3TGTE    Delco EFI ECU Standard engine 24 psi boost
    78' KE55 L67        Delco EFI ECU
    #4
    Steve_A
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/20 18:06:19 (permalink)
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    Very cool! I wish I'd made something that useful at 12 haha. Thanks for posting that up, seeing everything on a graph really helps with the concepts involved. Seems to me like it would be smart to hold off on the MBC then, considering I don't have any info on the tune that's currently running. 
     
    Better safe then sorry!
    #5
    92 Hard Top
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/20 20:25:46 (permalink)
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    Read this
    http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm
     
    I'm still using standard ECU.
    This is what I am following.
    #6

    Steve_A
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/21 19:04:52 (permalink)
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    Yeh I'v seen that article, it's been great along side this article from KO Racing - http://www.koracing.net/viewarticle.php?article=10
    #7
    midmadness
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    Re: Is Installing a Manual Boost Controller Without Retuning Safe?? 2014/10/21 19:59:30 (permalink)
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    Would definitely be interested in seeing some more of your graphs kojab. That sort of information is gold in my opinion.
    #8
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