2013/04/22 14:22:41
Tree
@MCT cool many thanks for the data log. Not sure if I'm reading it right but it looks like the oil pressure is dipping to 0 kpa (grey line) that can't be good
 
@ Gates: Pretty sure most of the understeer was due to stock suspension on semi's. And alignment needs to be more err...personalised. Changing driving style also makes quite a difference since I had a habit of late braking. With RE002 and same stock sussy I actually had a much more balanced setup since the tyres and sussy was "better" matched.
You are half right about the front sway bar. "By the book" front sway will increase understeer since it stiffens front thus increase rear grip. The ones who exp less understeer was cos they had too much body roll so the front sway helps that. But since the sway bars connect one axle to another it reduces wheel independence. The point of modern suspensions is to increase wheel patch as you say which is why they did away with live axle for MacPhers and double wish, no? So instead I will try to run higher spring rates which keeps 4 wheel independence but keeping the stock sways for now. If you remember Ken's car (FZero) he actually runs no sway bars lol
The good thing about the sway bar however is that it doesn't compromise ride comfort as much as spring rate.
 
Anyways before I delve into sways I should really try my rsr/koni combo first as I would have a better idea on where to go. Still waiting on the rsrs to arrive but thanks for the tip mate. I'll be curious to see what u run down the road and how it compares. I don't have the time and money to track the car soon but next trackway I'll definitely know if I need an oil cooler from the oil temp/press gauge :)
 
Thanks for the FYI Trav but don't race teams rebuild engines after each race hehe (i really have no idea)
 
Oh and since we are on topic about engine wear, in addition to pre-oilers, what about block heaters? Then switching to 0W-40 oil I think engine wear will be a distant memory LOL
2013/04/22 14:46:52
Knightrous
TreeWith RE002 and same stock sussy I actually had a much more balanced setup since the tyres and sussy was "better" matched.


Probably a case of with the street tires your getting a small amount of oversteer (rear slip) that counters the understeer. When you go to the semi's you've now got more traction on the rear and your not able to counter that understeer by inducing some slip angle.
2013/04/22 17:17:41
Tree
^Precisely, the semis were just too grippy for the stock suspension.
2013/04/22 20:39:00
kameleon
Block heaters.......... not needed mate.
 
And no group N engines do not get rebuilt every race.
2013/04/22 21:40:42
WIDEMR
Yeah i think your getting to ahead of yourself Tri, an engine pre warmer would not be required, altho I would be lying if I said I never wanted to have it on my car ha ha but not required for a stockish motor as 1. your engine was designed to start cold, i has done so very well every day for 20 years and 2. your not required to have your car turned off at the track, then start it up and be racing within a few seconds, you can idle for a few mins.
 
If your a F1 car, v8 supercar ect then thats different, as especially with F1 engines the tolerances are very tight, at room temp the motor might not turn over or cause alot of friction on parts and damage. A v8 supercar needs to sit there, then start the car and go do practice or qualifying runs ect.
 
I dont know about F1, but V8s and alot others use off car coolant heaters, 2 dry break fittings on the coolant system, connect up, recirculates coolant and heats it up, heating up the motor, oil ect as it goes.
 
Now if you had a dry sump........ you would be silly not to wrap a nos bottle heater blanket around the large oil tank in the boot, and have a power supply off the car to warm it up :)
2013/04/23 08:46:34
track_mr2
I don't think you need to worry about doing anything to your motor interms of oil starvation. I use my MR2 only for track events with a stock sump and haven't had issues so far (hopefully stays that way).
I think a bigger question is, who's using there MR2 on the track frequently and out of them does anyone have a modified sump or modified oil system? I definately don't reckon anyone is running a dry sump on this forum?
2013/04/23 12:37:02
MRTurbo
Re Upgraded sway bar
Tree - I run Pro Kits with Konis and also use 595 RS-Rs and a Whiteline H/D front sway bar.
Before fitting the sway bar, if I went too hot into a corner I would feel the back would want to "come out" and just a general scary feeling. After I fitted the bar, there was no noticeable increase in understeer but just a feeling of a more planted and stable car overall with much less roll - the front end felt much more "connected". Only if I really yank the steering wheel hard into a very tight turn will it understeer but so will most cars. I'll have to point out that it's only set on the 'soft' setting so I can't comment on what it's like on 'normal' or 'hard' which would probably induce more understeer.
Now I'm willing to upgrade the rear bar and see what that does.  
2013/04/23 14:43:12
EssDub
Pre-whiteline, you would have been finding the car flexing laterally far enough to allow the weight at the back end to overpower the grip available from the front tyres, resulting in the oversteer.   By installing the harder front bar, even on the softest setting, you will have reduced that flex considerably, allowing the front wheels to remain in full contact with the road much better.  This does however increase the instance of understeer, since you are now able to load up the front wheels much more without fearing that the back will let go.  Since you are essentially running a (borderline) semi-slick tyre, you won't end up with the sledge understeer that you would get on lesser tyres.
 
By adding a stiffer rear bar, you will find that the car will corner much harder and flatter, but the transition to oversteer will be controlled more by driver input (throttle and steering) rather than good ol' inertia.  With both bars on the SOFT setting, you'll find a very neutral turn-in, with the tendancy to oversteer when lifting off the throttle.  Having the rear bar harder than the front will induce much more oversteer on turn-in, and with the front harder than rear, the front will tend to understeer or 'lean' into the corner.
 
Finding the balance is almost 100% driver preference IMO, it took me weeks to settle on the balance that I have in my car, but having them in the car is the single biggest improvement of any of the modifications I have done to it :D
2013/04/23 15:24:18
MCT_MR2


there is an accusump I just got in for a customers car, just for reference tree.
this one is a monster 3l model.

I find it odd that everyone is so quick to dismiss oil surge on a mid engined car. the most common mod you will find on a lotus elise/exige that gets tracked is an accusump.

oh and tree, your correct, the engine ran for 3 seconds with no oil pressure whatsoever on that one corner.
2013/04/23 18:48:50
Tree
@ Brendan/Trav yeh I was just being extra careful y'know by preventive maintenance rather than condition based as my last engine kicked the bucket too soon mainly due to my inexperience. redttarga claims to have saved his engine as well by installing the electric oil pump as there was metal on metal contact. Can't argue that all these mods contribute to engine longevity right? 10k would be a modest price for my beast ;)
And dw I'm not actually getting a block heater unless I have a proper garage and have nothing else to do lol
 
I don't know anyone with dry sump but Ken has a baffled sump
 
MRturbo yeh let us know how it goes with the rear sway bar. When i was researching between spring vs coils, the general idea I got was that all aftermarket SW20 springs are progressive and kinda soft for track so they needed sway bars to reduce roll; with the exception of RSR Race and H&R springs which have a more linear feel (but still prog) and average over 200 lbs (280-346 lb for rsr rears :). With coils tho can choose any rate so you could go really stiff with no sway bars. Another thing to note but every1 prob knows already is sway bars are not linear.
 
pics FTW! if I'm right that green thingy is the electric solenoid? Do you have thoughts or experience from customers about reliability of electric vs mechanical MCT?
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