Hey guys,

Im just curious as to what people have done with their aw11's to limit/prevent oil starvation.

Reason i ask is a have spun and destroyed my no1 bearing. Thankfully crank is ok, and its just a bearing, but this is the second motor i have had issues with. Oil pressure is fine, and has been the whole time. Engine doesnt have many k's on it and the rest of the bearings are perfect.

Particularily guys that track their cars, and run semis, what have you done ie. Extended sump, baffled sump, etc.

To save on comments, yes i know mrp sell a moroso sump, im looking at all my options before i make a decision. No i have no intention of running an accusump or a dry sump. The car already runs an oil cooler and remote filter, and i have a factory sump and baffle/crank scraper.

Any input would be appreciated.

Its a good point to raise. I spun my first bearing on a high speed stage half way through a rally. Tried to limp it back to the service park. I ended up kicking a rod out in a spectacular fire ball going past Kendall golf course. Not how you want to be turning heads.
 
You raised a red flag to me which was that you have a remote filter housing and cooler. If you are running a 13 row cooler with a couple of metres of 10AN, it might consume around the 300ml mark, or more. 
 
Consider the orientation of the 4a in an MR2. The sump collection bit is on the driver side. Sweeping right hand corners take the oil away from the pick-up.
 
We know a lot of oil tends to stay high in the heads in 4a's when they're singing. If you don't compensate for your cooling system, and your pushing in a third/4th gear right hand sweeper, imagine what's left in your sump of your 3.5 odd litres.
 
The cheap solution is to chuck in more oil. Its only too much oil if your crank is wading through it, or its gushing out the PCV valve (which you should have plumbed into a catch can for track days). The mark I run at is well above the factory line.
 
You can do a pump upgrade but it wont help you if your pick-up is sucking air. I recommend an oil pressure gauge with an inbuilt alarm. Roadrunner 4x4 does a good one. Keep an ear out in the right handers.
 
If ever I blow a motor, I've been advised to chuck out the oil cooler and replace it. It can end up with fine particles in it that can find their way into you new motor. It has to be a false economy to re-use a contaminated oil cooler.
 
I run Penrite 15w-50 high performance mineral. It has the high zinc content but stays pretty clean as well. I tried the Brad Penn but it seemed to me it would need more regular changing with flushing. Prob good for quarter mile motors and high boost.
 
If you're still suffering oil starvation after that, start playing with sumps, but try and identify when the starvation is occurring. Maybe you can data log your oil pressure and get Mark Larkim about it. No point di(*ing around with sumps if you have a slightly bent crank or poor bearing clearances causing dramas.
 
Hope it helps. Don't short-cut on that rebuild. Do it right
 
 
 

This looks like a good idea.

http://twosrus.com/catalo...fo.php?products_id=889

And cheap (freight will probably be the killer though)

I am keen to avoid a repeat of last years trackday disaster

Spun bearing - broken rod - hole in block - new engine.

Great info rallyadub!

I know what you said in your opening post, but Accusump.
The Biohazard MR2 Chumpcar team had a few 1MZ/3MZ motor failures due to oil starvation even with baffled sumps, so they started using accusumps and I don't believe they have lost a motor since.

Awesome thorough response rallyadub. I run an 11 row cooler, remote mount filter (due to turbo fitment) and i run my car overfull by about 5-700ml. I have oil temp and pressure sensors which are logged by the motec. By the logging, i got a gulp of air, and looking at the values from the ecus internal g sensors, it was while i was bouncing around breaking traction, before going through a 3rd gear right hander.

I cant add any more oil, as it causes issues with the turbo oil seals. As for oil it lives on 10w40 300v in winter, and 15w50 300v in the summer months. Funny you should mention cranks, i broke one in my old motor. Crank was checked, block had main caps line bored and i personally assembled the motor and bearing clearances we checked with a micrometer and plastigauge.

Theorist: i believe these arent bad, i believe zerogk ran them in his sump with success. I just have issue with twos r us due to prior issues. If they were made by t3, i would have them on order already. Thats mega unlucky with your car, i broke a crank and destroyed bearings and in the situation, was unable to switch off car for over a minute. Still have the block, but it is unusable.

Aaron, i know i know, but i would rather execute less invasive options first. I might play around with a spare sump while i have time off over chrissie/new years.

Thanks for the responses guys, its an issue that i never see discussed on here, some awesome input.

It sounds like you know as much as I've learnt on this.
That twosrus baffle looks like a good thing for the average weekend warrior who wants to drive his car home. Combined with an extra 500-700 ml as you say, most punters would be covered.
 
I should have noted your power level. Its an up-hill battle for you now. Those accusumps aren't real popular. Its like they're the colostomy bag of the motorsport world but if its as easy as just teeing it in to your oil line after the cooler, sounds like a good insurance policy. I wonder how quick they respond to an air bubble.
 
Just looking at the Moroso sump, I reckon its set-up for a north/south motor. We'd need the tanks at 90 deg to that. One coming out under the crank and one going back towards no. 4 pot. I did a quick google images to see if there's one done that way - nothing really. This link might give some ideas though: http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92794
 
Some Honda Integra luva would have figure something out for east west layout. Homework is to find it and design pinch.

I'm keen to hear what you guys come up with. I just grenaded my motor in spectacular fashion on a long left hander, however my oil level was just under the dipstick, so operator error.
 
I have the sump out of the spare engine and there is too much clearance around the factory baffle plate for my liking. A tighter fitting baffle plate that can be riveted to the top of the factory one would be the go. Also, the riveted baffle plate could incorporate a folded up section (on the #4 cyl side) with a trap door - visualise the top half of the twosrus design combined with post #3 of Rallyadub's link.
 
I'm a couple month's away from piecing the new engine together and dealing with the issue, so will keep an eye on this thread in case there is a better idea out there.

Has anyone had any practical experience with the accusumps?  
 
After reading through this thread I checked them out and it appears that if the sump pickup gets a gulp of air, there is nothing prioritising oil discharge to the head (i.e. one way valve in the Tee piece) over the pump or sump pickup.  If my info is correct, at 6krpm the oil pump is rated at 30-40L/min and thus I wouldn't expect discharging 2-3L of oil into a Tee piece (which would favor the low pressure side) to offer much protection.  
 
To put my query into perspective, my mechanical knowledge is limited at best however thinking the accusump concept though logically didn't make sense for the quantities involved.

You will find the oil flow is actually much lower then the pumps flow potential as the pressure bypass valve will dump most of it back to the sump when your up over the middle of the rev range. A lot of the oil galleries and ports are only 1-5mm in port size, very hard to flow 30+L min through that without going into high pressures (hydraulic pressures)
 
For that 1-2 seconds where your oil pump has sucked air, the 3L stored in the accumulator is adequate to prevent bearing damage.