2011/05/02 13:34:03
MuMan
Yes, it's ok to run on a stock fuel system. Your still running the same volume of fuel, so your fuel system doesn't know anything has changed. Think of it as a super optimax, because that's basically what it is.
When you see the result, you'll probably want to replace the hoses, filter and stay with it. Shouldn't impact economy to any great degree, maybe even improve it.
Just don't go over boosting on it.
Disclaimer: Anything you do with bio-flex is up to you, and ethanol can affect your pump, tank & hoses.
2011/05/02 16:59:49
MuMan
Update:  Well I've been playing with this stuff again (still) and after a bit of consideration I decided to do this..
I wanted to see if this 80/20 mix was going to lean out under boost, so not wanting to change away from stock mapping, but not wanting to take any chance, I set the AFPR 10psi above stock to stretch the injectors, I also set initial advance as close to +1.5deg as I could get it, and re-enabled the fcd clamp. I took it out and boosted it to 20psi..
The thing went ballistic, boost came on so fast you simply couldn't keep track of it. I think a lot of it was the 28 hitting it's sweet spot. Anyway, please don't try this... 
 
Just to get this back into perspective..give this 80/20 a try, but don't change anything, and see what results you get. Don't try it if your running a standalone or on a chipped ECU without a dyno. The reason it works so well on stock ECU's is because of the mega rich fuelling under boost, also JDM knock response eating away at your ign curve due to low grade fuel. If you like what you get (and you will) you can play around with it using initial advance (2deg max!) and base fuel pressure (AFPR) to stretch the injectors a bit.
You can look at a minor injector upgrade but if your getting good results, there's no real point as once your on 100RON and getting all the JDM ECU has to offer, there's no where else to go with the stock ECU. Well unless you looking for more boost, but then you will need a metal HG, pump & rail upgrade & AFPR. You could also put the stock pump onto battery voltage, but then it's going to quit at some time.
You can consider a fuel/ign controller and increase the mix your running, with bigger injectors, but again once you reach a certain level, there's no point in going further. This stuff really isn't such a good fuel in its own right and once you have the benefit of the higher octane & combustion temp cooling, the rest becomes a burden.
Also don't forget the more you use, the less power potential the injector sizing has, so there's definite limits where more = less. ie. 550's will net you 330whp on 98 but only 275whp on E85, the same injectors on 80/20 will make ~315whp (or whatever that is in Kw..230Kw?)..this is an example only, not suggesting your going to see anything like that.
Anyhow, they are my thoughts on the subject, so go check it out.
and play safe!...
 
Disclaimer: Anything you do with bio-flex is up to you, and ethanol can affect your pump, tank & hoses.
2011/05/02 19:47:41
zmit
Ive just added 10 litres to ~30 litres... so it's more like a 25% mix.
first of all, i'm also running the gen 3 electronics with 540cc injectors and a hiflowed ct26.... first impressions, lower throttle and rpm seems smoother. havent played with higher boost yet.
 
2011/05/02 20:53:21
MuMan
Good stuff, let us know how you go..might help someone else looking at doing the same. Not sure about the 25%..hmmm well at least your the first.
I'd like to see how the gen2 ECU's respond to it.
Anyway, anyone in brissy looking for this stuff, you can get it at Marsden Caltex on Browns Plains Road, cnr of 3rd Av I think it is..also Ipswich where tots said.
2011/05/03 09:25:44
MRTurbo
MuMan

The reason it works so well on stock ECU's is because of the mega rich fuelling under boost, also JDM knock response eating away at your ign curve due to low grade fuel. If you like what you get (and you will) you can play around with it using initial advance (2deg max!) and base fuel pressure (AFPR) to stretch the injectors a bit.


When you say "low grade fuel" what fuel are you talking about? I NEVER run mine on anything less than 98 RON (eg. BP Ultimate).
 
Also, wouldn't upping the fuel pressure make it run richer than it already is?
2011/05/03 10:11:38
MuMan
What I mean is low grade in comparison to the fuel the ECU was originally mapped for.
Yes, your right, but I was refering to changing the ratio from 80/20 upwards. You can effectively alter the flow rate of the injectors by doing this. basically the only trim you have, along with initial advance, if you want to play around with the blend, in the absence of a EFI/Ign controller.
I don't recommend doing it though, just try the 80/20 and see what results you get, then decide what direction you want to go from there..if any.
 
Disclaimer: Anything you do with bio-flex is up to you, and ethanol can affect your pump, tank & hoses
 
 
2011/05/03 10:58:57
MRTurbo
Can someone enlighten me on what type of fuel the ECU was mapped for?? 
 
2011/05/03 13:25:25
MuMan
The ECU's are programmed for JDM 100RON.
I see where you got confused.
I was saying the stock ECU's run over rich mixtures and suffer from ign value degredation on straight 98 under boost.
\E85 is an oxygenated fuel, so your increasing the air content to fuel ratio by adding it.  This naturally increases as you increase the mix ratio, so you have to be careful.
This has the effect of increasing VE, and raising AFR's, which is where the power increase comes from, and the increased octane rating allows you to use this, with existing ign mapping without encountering knock issues, which you'd see on 98. This is also aided by the cooling effect of the E85 ethanol, same as methanol/water injection does, and lowers combustion temps, further increasing knock tolerance. Also, because your running the full JDM ignition values, your optimising ign closer to MBT value, so you get increased power from simply restoring the JDM mapping.
Hope that explains it..
2011/05/03 14:04:39
MR2QIK
Just thought I'd chime in here. I've heard reports from a few friends using E85 that the Bio-Flex stuff @ Caltex runs the same as the barrel E85 they've also used. I'm yet to test this myself, but it's a promising sign.
2011/05/04 00:22:54
zmit
Well after initially running a high idle for a few runs, it has now sorted itself out and seems to be running fine again.
one thing is for sure... it hauls. I honestly can't tell you whether it's all the E85 or whether it was the 14 degrees (remember, i'm still coming to terms with dry cool air down here!)
 
Here is something interesting though....
 
gen 3 efi, 16 psi, standard (gen 3) fuel, presumably a CT20B or equivalent.
 
I filled up last night with 1.5 gallons of e85 and the rest 93 octane. Full tank, so this is extremely conservative. This is at 16 psi, base fuel pressure 39.5psi, 3rd gear pull from about 3500 rpm to 7k. Looks like I can add a little more e85 next time. Keep in mind this is a gen3 efi conversion, not a real gen3. I have all the bolt-ons & mods for an appropriate gen3 conversion.

So just to clarify, the more e85 I put in, the leaner my AFR will appear right? I am open to recommendations!
 

 
From here:
http://mr2oc.com/showthre...8957&highlight=e85
 
Th MR2OC 'Alternative Fuels' forum
http://mr2oc.com/forumdisplay.php?f=202
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