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Cold start stalls

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alexv
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2014/01/05 10:58:50 (permalink)
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Cold start stalls

Heya,
 
  So the problem is that in the morning, my mr2 cranks and fires fine, but then the needle quickly drops from ~1500RPM or so down to 0 and stalls. If I give a bit of throttle for a second or two, then it doesn't stalls and the RPMs are steady. It tends to idle a bit high 1200-1400RPM but after warming up, it goes down to about ~1000RPM.
No check engine light. No problem if I try to start it after having used the car earlier in the day.
 
I did a fair bit of google searching on that one, and plenty of mr2s seem to be having similar issues, but I couldn't find one that was exactly like my problem so I thought I would try to ask for advice.
From my searches, it seems like cold start timer switch/ ecu temp sensor are the most likely culprits. Is there any way to test them or is the only way is to replace them?
 
cheers
#1


25 Replies Related Threads

    Mrskylighter
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/05 13:58:11 (permalink)
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    What model mr2 / engine?
    #2
    alexv
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/05 18:59:00 (permalink)
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    Oh crap, I knew I forgot something :(
    It's a 91 turbo G-Limited JDM
    #3

    Mrskylighter
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/06 14:20:19 (permalink)
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    Assuming the engine is standard(ish) it should be warm idling at 750rpm+/- 50 
    Cold start idle speed is usually between 1000-1250 from memory.
     
    Probably the first step shoul dbe to acquire a copy of the BGB (big green book) service manual and have a look in the EFI section. In there it will explain how to test various sensors and calibrate certain parts back to factory spec.
     
    My guess on your car is someone may have played with the TPS sensor, fiddled with the throttle stop screw and adjusted the idle speed screw and possibly adjusted the air flow meter adjustment screw.
     
    #4
    Mrskylighter
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/06 14:22:08 (permalink)
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    BGB in a zip file can be obtained from here. http://manual.teq.org/
    #5
    dennis the menace
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/06 14:32:08 (permalink)
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    Hmm, idle AND a PS problem on this car?  Any other issues with this, and is it a recent acquisition?

    Past-President, MR2 Owners Club Qld
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    #6

    alexv
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/06 16:54:04 (permalink)
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    Recently bought a few weeks ago. It looks like the rest is working fine (I hope).
    Yesterday, my mechanic cleaned the throttle body a little bit, and this morning the car started without having to give any throttle input; however it was struggling a bit and the idling was rough for a minute. I will give it another try tomorrow morning and see what happens.
     
    Thanks Mrskylighter, I will give that a go tomorrow (also, I think that I will try to record a video to show what's going on)
    #7
    MR2QIK
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/07 00:18:03 (permalink)
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    Considering you mentioned it has worse fuel economy than an American v8 I think you have another issue too. Suggest having it looked over by a good efi tuner.

    MR2QIK - "The Little Car That Could"



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    #8
    alexv
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/07 11:44:28 (permalink)
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    Yeah, so same thing this morning, it no longer stalls on start, but it does cough/ idle rough for a little bit.
    It does idle at 1500 RPM for a bit and then slowly go to about 850 RPM when warm (well, 850 RPM according to my turbo timer, 1000 RPM according to my tachometer, so not sure which one to trust more).
     
    (the RPM go from 800 to 1500 RPM at start, but I am not touching the throttle at all)
    http://www.mediafire.com/...0yjycyq4/RoughIdle.mp4
     
    No idea, what's going on (or if it's even something to worry about)...
    post edited by alexv - 2014/01/07 11:50:15
    #9
    Zediah
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/07 14:03:11 (permalink)
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    My car has recently developed similar issues. On a cold start, the engine tries to stick at around 500-800 RPM when it should be at the 1000-1500. After a few seconds of very rough idling, it kicks itself up to the required 1000-1500 and is fine though.
     
    I'd be most interested if you find out what's going on with yours as well!
    #10
    track_mr2
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/07 15:55:16 (permalink)
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    It looks to me like someone has adjusted the throttle stop position. This stops the butterfly from closing fully. Most likely this is whats happened...You idle air controller that controls the amount of air bypassing the closed butterfly and entering the engine has got clogged with carbon which is very common. When this gets clogged your car will stall at idle as no air makes it passed through to the cylinders. Instead of cleaning that, they have adjusted the butterfly stop screw (like ona  carby engine) so air is comming through to the cylinders but it keeps your TPS out of its idle fuel mapping position and also means your idle air control has no control on idle speeds. As they did this when your engines warm it probably idles fine when warm but has trouble when heating up. There are a few things you need to do to test this but its a bit hard to explain. I could be wrong but idle issues like this are usually related to your idle air controller and throttle stop position as these are the main things controlling idle speed. Over or underfuelling wont cause jumps in your idle speed that drastic.
    It doesn't seem to be too big of an issue at all more of an annoyance. I'd leave it alone until things get worse if they do.
    post edited by track_mr2 - 2014/01/07 15:59:44
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    track_mr2
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/07 16:05:12 (permalink)
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    Ohh should also say vacume leeks are another common problem that could cause irratic idle.....probably the first thing to check.
    #12
    alexv
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/07 16:16:30 (permalink)
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    track_mr2
    Ohh should also say vacume leeks are another common problem that could cause irratic idle.....probably the first thing to check.




    Now that you mention it, I had a boost gauge that I had to remove for RWC, and while the line going to the (now absent) gauge was plugged, this is when I had the engine stalling on cold start. Now that I have re-installed the boost gauge (and the throttle body got cleaned), I no longer get stalling, but rough idle on cold starts instead. So either the throttle body cleaning helped or this is related to the line going to the boost gauge (both things happened on the same day as well as re-installing the manual boost controller so it's hard to pin-point the reason for that change)
     
    Checking for vacuum leaks seems like a good idea regardless!
     
    EDIT: the re-installing of the boost gauge was irrelevant. I still get stalling sometimes on cold start.
    post edited by alexv - 2014/01/13 14:48:51
    #13
    Firthy
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/13 14:33:01 (permalink)
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    Any further word on this?  I have something similar on cold starts and I'm interested in your progress.

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    #14
    alexv
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    Re: Cold start stalls 2014/01/13 14:46:48 (permalink)
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    Sadly, no. Sometimes my car starts and stalls after 2seconds, and sometimes it's just a very rough idle around ~500-700RPMs and slowly and painfully makes its way to 1200-1500 RPMs until it warms up and idle fine.
    I did try to look for leaks, but I couldn't find any (next time I see a mechanic I might ask him to try to do it the proper way with a vacuum pump). Also my vacuum gauge indicate a steady ~500 Hg mm (~21psi in/mm) which seems pretty good, so I am not sure a vacuum leak would be the cause.
    So my next guess would be TPS/ IAC, as someone mentioned above (I do not have the skills to check these out myself though) or the AFM adjustment screw (looks like the anti-tamper bung has been removed, so someone must have touched this and I do not know if it's been set up correctly).
     
    I will post again if/ when I figure this out, but any help would be more than greatly appreciated!
    #15
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