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Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU

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NoddE
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Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:23 PM (permalink)
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Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU

Buyers:
-lmt (MR2 Australia)
-madmr2 (MR2 Australia)
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-MRGen3Turbo (MR2 Australia)
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-JP (IMOC)
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-eazy2001x (MR2OC)
-TURBRO (MR2OC)
-jose91t (MR2OC)
 
I have been working on a kit that now allows Power FC uses to use Sequential ignition (Coil on plug) and get rid of the distributor cap, rotor and ignition wires.
 
It easily handles 450whp with stock plug gap (0.8 mm) on iridium plugs, and they can probably handle even more power without problems.
 
This kit does not mess up the base ignition timing as long as you dont move around the distributor assy.

Installation time would be anything from around 3 hours and up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiGcvRRUVQg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emm0QX7cAbE



Picture of complete kit:




The price for my kit will be 270 USD, then you have to get 4 parts on your own to complete the kit.
I decided to make it like this because it will be the most cost effective way for you. 

Depending on where or how you get these additional parts,
the total price for a sequential ignition system will end up around 400-500 USD.


The kit includes these parts:

1pc Box (Sequential module)
1pc Bracket (for Igniter)
1pc Harness (5-wire Extension & 3-wire Signal harness)
1pc Serial cable (for the Box)
1pc Corrugated tube (Cover for the ignition coils harness)
1pc Crimp tube (for the soldering)
1pc 1-pin female plug (for the OEM power wire)
1pc 5-pin male plug (for the Coils harness)
1pc resistor (for the Tacho meter)
1pc M6 bolt (to mount box to fire wall in trunk compartment)
2pcs M5 bolt & lock washer for igniter (igniter version dependent)
3pcs M4 bolt & lock washer for igniter (igniter version dependent)


Parts to get on your own:
 
4pcs Honda (Denso) CBR600RR Coil (03-09) (Get used ones from Ebay)
Part number: 129700-4510 or J0451
OR
4pcs Suzuki (Denso) GSX-R Coil (00-03) (Get used ones from Ebay)
Part number: 129700-4150 or J0396
(I can not guarantee what power these are good for as i have not tried them yet but the length is right and they have similar spec as the CBR coils)
 
4pcs Denso Spark plug w/ removable terminal (I recommend sparkplugs.co.uk)
Part number: Q22PR-U (copper) or IK22 (iridium 0.4mm tip)
 
1pc Toyota Supra MK4 Igniter (Get used ones from Ebay or driftmotion.com)
Part number: 89621-22020 (old number) or 89621-22030 (new number)
 
1pc Yamaha R1 Coil Harness (04-09) (Get a used one from Ebay)
NOTE: The Earlier 04-06 harness has a big grey connector while the Later 07-09 harness  has a big black connector. I recommend to get the later black plug harness as the earlier one  is a bit to short. It can however be used if the 5 wires in the harness gets extended by 3” or if you route the harness on the intake side of the coil instead of the exhaust side. 
.
picture of the (to) short harness:



-I will have a warranty on my parts (wiring, soldering and that the circuit works when I ship it as I will test every single circuit on my car), but I can not take responsibilty for whatever you do, and what happens to your engine as there is to many variables to take into account.

Regards
Jimmy
post edited by NoddE - Friday, May 18, 2012 10:11 AM
#1


90 Replies Related Threads

    Bionikal
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:38 PM (permalink)
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    This is awesome..

    But what happens on the distributor side.. Just leave the dizzy to fill the hole or what?
    #2
    NoddE
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:46 PM (permalink)
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    You keep the distributor assy and remove the rotor. The cap will just sit there without wires. A friend is looking into making a cover to replace the ugly looking distributor cap. This will be an optional part for whoever want to change the oem cap just for cosmetics :)
    Price is not yet set, but i would assume its not much.

    And i forgot to tell, the ignition timing will not be messed up. No need to do base timing etc..
    #3

    -Totenkopf-
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:49 PM (permalink)
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    Hi Nodde,

    Somewhat OT here, I have a CDI ignition system firing individual coils at the moment however I am always looking to make improvements.

    I use R6 coils. I notice you specify different coils with the R6 harness. Do you find these coils perform better? I have had no dramas with the R6 coils so far (~23psi of boost, ~500rwhp). Fitment is also pretty neat.

    Any reason you recommend the coils you do?

    Cheers,

    James.

    PS: Dont guess you manage to know any copper heat range 8 plugs that have a removal terminal. I had serious issues finding some.
    #4
    Bionikal
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:50 PM (permalink)
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    Once you have that cap system worked out I'll be pretty keen!
    #5
    -Totenkopf-
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:54 PM (permalink)
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    Bionikal. Alamo Motorsports in the states do a cap (anodized Al from memory). I can also supply you one. A mate of mine made a billet aluminium cap for me and a few others. I'll get a pictures later.
    #6

    NoddE
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:56 PM (permalink)
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    R6 coils are CDI
    CBR coils are Inductive
    No i cant give a reason for you to change if you already have coil on plugs that works just fine :)
    Or well i can give one reason for why i like Inductive better. As long as you dont get missfiring (enough spark) with Inductive coils the spark length (milliseconds) is longer compared to CDI (micro seconds if i recall right).

    Why i recommend the R1 (not R6 but might be same) is just because it looks way better then the Honda harness, and the lenght of it fits the engine and my extension harness pretty fine. :)

    Coil fitment between the R6 and CBR600RR is about the same lengthwise.. I have a set of left over inductive R1 coils (similar style as R6) and they are the same length. Whats better with the Yamaha coils is the valve cover seal but parts from the left over oem ign wires can be used to to get a seal to, which is what i have written in the instructions.
    #7
    -Totenkopf-
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 0:03 PM (permalink)
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    You are correct, inductive releases the spark energy over a greatier time period. CDI is more aggressive but can cause incomplete burn due to short spark time. That is why most systems (mine included) fire the spark multiple times in the one ignition event.

    Seeing as I run a CDI system, the R6 coils should be find for my use then.

    I run avionics grade teflon insulated twisted and shielded cable for all my coil wiring, so will probably just stick with my current custom harness.
    #8
    Bionikal
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 0:16 PM (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by -Totenkopf-

    Bionikal. Alamo Motorsports in the states do a cap (anodized Al from memory). I can also supply you one. A mate of mine made a billet aluminium cap for me and a few others. I'll get a pictures later.



    Brilliant!

    I'll start looking into this more then!
    #9
    kameleon
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 0:55 PM (permalink)
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    nodde im the guy you got the caldina manifold for all those years ago. Welcome to the forum and great first post!

    This should sell well. If i wasnt about to shell out for an ecu next week i would be buying this.

    And i knew luan had gone dizzyless due to his forsale thread of his cap and rotor hahaha

    the price is quite reasonable for this type of setup and will make for a much cleaner engine bay too good work.
    #10
    nuk1ear
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 1:26 AM (permalink)
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Bionikal

    quote:
    Originally posted by -Totenkopf-

    Bionikal. Alamo Motorsports in the states do a cap (anodized Al from memory). I can also supply you one. A mate of mine made a billet aluminium cap for me and a few others. I'll get a pictures later.



    Brilliant!

    I'll start looking into this more then!



    Im interested in this too, when i remove the cap and rotor etc and just use it for position, it would be nice to cover it with something to make it smaller.
    #11
    MR2QIK
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 2:28 AM (permalink)
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    Don't trust this guy!!!!! He steals front bars!!!! Hehehe :) jks

    Nice work with the ignition Jimmy. If I didn't already have my msd 6al then I'd get this. I'm not having probs at the moment, but will keep it in mind. Put your car in the showroom thread.
    #12
    lmt
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 3:00 AM (permalink)
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    Before i get a few questions on msn, i think i should give a brief summary.

    I had just finish testing the final phase for jimmy.
    I had just came back running a .9mm gap plug at 1.6bar boost and there is no sign of mild missing. Mild missing only really shows up on datalogging of the af and cant be pick up by feel or sound.



    installation time: is about 3hrs with the latest instructions with most people.

    pro of this setup:
    you get rid of the distributor as a firing component = less maintenance parts.
    less resistance in the ignition system = stronger spark.
    lets you run a more stockish spark plug gap with boost over 1.4bar.
    looks quite stock if you take your time
    works on a gen 3 ecu so you can go back to it if your epa

    Cons
    $ at the start, however it will end up costing less on the long run
    spark plug options.
    losing the option of running a msd so you will lose a bit of low end toruqe coming from a msd/crane setup.


    First weeks impression of this system from a crane amp system is:

    Its a lot lot smoother. So much so, driving in the wet was quite noticeable.
    Exhaust db drops 4db on the iphone scale. I use to idle at 101db MAX out the scale so could be higher. now im 97db
    A lot less smoke coming out of the exhaust on high boost 24psi. Even when running rich for testing purposes.
    Lost a bit of low end response compare to the crane amp i had


    For people wondering if you should upgrade. ( a few have ask me already)
    If you want a less maintenance ignition system (YES)
    If you want more power on a stock car or 15psi (NO) waste of time, it will not give you more power
    If you boosting around 21psi (1.4bar+) YES
    If you hate having spark plug leads and prefer the modern look of coilpacks (YES)
    If you have a msd system due to missing (YES) long term maintenance with msd is a pain. not suitable for daily usage. It seem to always be a little unstable on high boost too. This has been show in a few logs i seen from jimmy, me and Lawrence. All running extreme amount of boost and all have wideband connected showing the miss.

    Some people i would suggest looking into this is nick, dylan and dustin.

    Jimmy has put 20 into production for this first run. He has put in a lot of effort and pain into this. Not sure if his making anymore after this.
    I have personally tested this and have gave it a hard time trashing it. People who know me, knows i have had a uphill battle with msd/crane. I would not suggest something i think doesn't work in extreme conditions.



    #13
    -Totenkopf-
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 3:29 AM (permalink)
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    Cap (still need to drill holes for mounting)
    #14
    kameleon
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    RE: Distributorless Ignition for Power FC and Gen3 ECU Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:11 AM (permalink)
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    Nice looking piece there James. Price?
    #15
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